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Ableton Lives
Thu, December 13, 2007 - 1:58 PMI've had so much to learn. It feels like it's taking forever. I learned beatmatching using turntables and CDJs, and even a few different ways to mix tracks together. Ableton can make this part easy, if you prepare it to understand the tracks by warping them. Just the same, I haven't been satisfied with the mixes I've prepared. I set out to find out why.
There's a concept called harmonic mixing. It works by determining the key a track is in, say D#, and then figuring out the keys of tracks that are compatible. So, not only do I match BPMs, I match the keys. This was tough to work out, because I couldn't seem to remember that D# was compatible with Cm, A#, and G#, much less any of the other 23 keys that a song might be. Then I found this Camelot Easymix System, which assigns keycodes such as 5B to a key, which is compatible with any adjacent keycode such as 5A, 4B, and 6B. Now I can view the song's keycode, and instantly know what matches, or even bring the key of the song up or down a semitone (by adding or subtracting 7), and therefore knowing it matches 12B, 12A, 11B, and 1B. It all makes sense if you look at the little wheel Camelot designed. The mixes sound so much better to me now once I found Rapid Evolution (www.mixshare.com ), a tool for determining song key, and put this knowledge to use.
But I'm still having difficulty using Ableton Live. Ableton organizes songs by a thing it calls clips. When one clicks on a clip, the display on the bottom either shows the waveform, warp, and loop markers, or it shows the effects applied. When I want to time starting one track based upon where another track is playing, I haven't figured out a way to see both track's waveforms so I can manipulate the sound, or how to switch quickly between the effects rack and the waveform display. That's not much different than using vinyl or CDs, but Live doesn't really have a way I've found to nudge the track a beat or two to line things up on the bars. Ugh. I've tried various quantization settings, and that helps, but if I use too high a value, it will sometimes require me to pause while I wait for an action to trigger when I might prefer to perform or setup another. If I use too low a value, it's easier to miss the cue a little bit.
Another area I'm studying is trying to get my MIDI control surface to control Ableton Live. It's easy enough to program keys to launch clips, or adjust fader position or track levels. It's quite another to get it to initiate interesting transitions and sweeps. For example, I haven't figured out a way to get the MIDI controller to alter the bass level of only the highlighted track. Once I assign a knob to the bass level on a track, it stays that way. Since I only have eight knobs, that kind of limits my options, especially if I wish to use more than two tracks. Sometimes, I'll add in an effect, and it will assume control of one of the knobs I've assigned elsewhere, other times it doesn't. Baffles the hell out me, I'll tell you that.
Looking around on online forums can be helpful, but few people seem to really describe how they use Ableton Live, or if they do, they use terms that are way beyond my understanding (like I've prolly done to some of you, here). Then one day, I found a video on YouTube by PhatConductor that described how he set up a template for a particular MIDI controller and was able to do cool effects and juggle clips. And from that I was able to find lots of other videos. Sometimes the topic was dry or uninteresting, but I still got to peak at how they used Ableton Live, the type of controllers they have, and what kind of expectations I should have regarding what I can accomplish. The ableton.com site is simply frustrating to me, because I find that when they repeatedly describe every action as "simple", when it is far from that for me, it just sets me off.
I've spent weeks studying all these topics, and I have made some progress. I promised myself that I would make a long mix on Friday, Dec 14, and I still intend to do this. But I'm still not sure that it's a mix I will feel truly represents all the power of the program or of my musical expression. I feel like I still have a great more to learn, and a little success would go a long ways toward fueling that effort. Here's hoping for success tomorrow.
Thu, December 13, 2007 - 1:58 PM -
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14 Comments
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Thu, December 13, 2007 - 2:16 PM
Good luck Mike. I wish I had some advice, but all I can say is stick with it. I work with video editing software for a living, and I've been working with it for a few years, and I continue to figure out new things all the time. I would say to work with it at a basic level, until you are comfortable, and then start to slowly try to dissect, and experiment with it to fine tune your style. What I have found is that there are two parts to learning creative software. Part one is learning what it can do, part two is learning how to make it do that in an efficient way that makes sense to you. Sometimes just knowing that something is possible is most of the battle. Once you know what it CAN do, and that you WANT it to do that, you'll figure it out. Eventually.
I'm just learning to beatmatch with CD decks right now, so I'm light years behind your level. |
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Thu, December 13, 2007 - 3:14 PM
I'll ask my friend Rena.... she had recommended this software to me day before yesterday.
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Thu, December 13, 2007 - 6:12 PM
Dude you're switching offa wax? How prolific of you :-)
Yeah I can't really say I have much to offer on the Ableton front. The harmonic mixing is a great concept, definitely makes for a more aesthetic listening |
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Thu, December 13, 2007 - 6:26 PM
Ok one more thing...
I think it's awesome that you're venturing into the realm of software, however I hope it's not becuase you think your sound is lacking on the analogic side of things.
Ableton may perfectly beatmatch your tracks, and enable you to tweak them quite a bit, but I appreciate the organic aspect of a manual mix. Those slight slips that are usually only audible to the DJ, in my opinion, give the mix a richer sound. Only on paper should each measure be a precise clone of those on either side. Anyway I guess what I'm really trying to say is enjoy! I've still yet to hear you play, we'll have to do a beach party when it warms up. |
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Thu, December 13, 2007 - 9:47 PM
If you ever heard Big Mike play, you'd tell him to shut up, because he fuckin' rocks. But there's nothing wrong with shooting for even higher perfection.
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Thu, December 13, 2007 - 10:51 PM
Thanks, Kyle. I have a few reasons for wanting to switch to Ableton Live.
One, the cost of vinyl is so high, and I don't do enough big gigs to warrant the expense. I can buy four WAV files for the same money. Just the same, vinyl is definitely the easiest and most fun. I wish vinyl didn't weigh so much and would tolerate being locked in a hot car, 'cause I do love that sound. CDs are cool. I have CDJ-1000s, and they let me mark up tracks so I can jump around in them a bit to juggle the beats. I tend to like *BASS*, so if I slow the tempo, I also lower the pitch. But if I raise the tempo above 0%, I use the "Master Tempo" to help keep the bass as low as is possible. I'm now learning that this can bring me some unpredictable mixes. Just the same, I can remix tracks on my computer and then dump 'em to CD-R to give a track a fresh sound. I love that. So, using the computer is kind of a best of both worlds kinda thing. Better sound quality, and the ability to juggle and remix any track, change the pitch or tempo at will, and kind put my personal fingerprint on the result. At least, that's what I hope to do. I know what you mean about some of those imperfections. One of my favorite DJs will drop wax and immediately start to mix it in. Doesn't worry about the beatmatching right away, but she's quick to bring it on beat before she brings it up full level. Hearing that flanging kick can be kind of cool, but I figure she must spend a lot of hours learning which grooves will follow the others. |
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Thu, December 13, 2007 - 10:55 PM
Thanks, Griffin. I go to a lot of shows, and some of these DJs are masters. I feel like I'm painting with my fingers, while they are dithering the Sistine Chapel. It's not all technical, a lot of it comes from their heart. I love that.
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Fri, December 14, 2007 - 11:56 AM
Any good art.... truly good art.... comes from the heart.
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Fri, December 14, 2007 - 4:32 PM
We need to put you in touch with
Lindsey = Audiovoid. Remember he played with us at the SugarCube? (Whoa, so did Phat Conductor, now that I think of it). He is a fucking wizard on AL, and is really a sweetheart as well, would probably be willing to answer a few q's, or even do a little show and tell if we arrange it. Lindsey posts occasionally on some of the music productions tribes here.
You've already checked the "Abuse the Warp Markers" tribe, yes? You could post what you wrote above to that tribe or one of the other EMP tribes, or just send Linds a q by pm... he's in my friends as Audiovoid. Hope this helps. Can't wait to hear what you're cooking up! (I've finally been building some bass monstrosities of my own... SO much fun ! |
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Fri, December 14, 2007 - 6:13 PM
Well buddy I'll rock out to whatever you decide to play :-)
I hear you on the sound quality- I have heard arguments that wax is so much better, and if you're comparing to an mp3 below 320kbps then it could be no further from the truth. However I haven't yet heard anything (save for live performances with those...what are they called again? Oh, instruments!) clearer than a 96 wav file and with sound quality that high you almost need a digital interface to reconcile all that crystalline ear tickling sound. |
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Fri, December 14, 2007 - 7:32 PM
Kurian, thanks for the encouragement. I see audiovoid online all over the place, including the ableton forums and the tribes here. I would love to have somebody sit with me and talk through how they use Live in a set. I bet I'd learn more in 30 minutes than I've learned in the last 30 days. I didn't realize that audiovoid and PhatConductor were on our decks last year. I feel kinda, uh, special, or, uh, used. ;-P
Kyle, yer right about needin' a digital interface. I got one of those Edirol FA-66 24bit 192kHz Firewire interfaces. Kinda sweet in both directions, including ripping vinyl into audio files. Doesn't lose all its all its resolution when I rip at 24bit, 96kHz and then slow the track down. I found some free (as in beer) software called Audacity that let's me rip audio at any resolution and edit waveforms nicely. |
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Thu, December 20, 2007 - 7:38 PM
Another Key-Analyzer:
xone.mixedinkey.com/Not sure about any advantages of this over other similar software. Have you tried it ? |
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Thu, December 20, 2007 - 11:11 PM
Kurian, I saw that mixedinkey one, but it cost $58. For the purposes of learning, I decided to go with the free Rapid Evolution. RE is written in Java, so it's interface kinda blows. I suppose if I find this to be a useful utility, I might buy a version that's nicer to operate.
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Tue, April 29, 2008 - 5:08 AM
Ableton Live is the perect way of Harmonic Mixing
I'm using Ableton Live for perfect live gigs and ever since I came across mixed in key i'm fixed to harmonic mixing!
I was searching searching my ass off finding new tracks that fit into the set. I recently found this page: www.track-finder.com Ist' all about finding harmonic tracks that fit! Keep on Abletonizing it |
