art and questions
confict of interests, solutions
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:02 PM
How would you deal with people who treated others with injustice that caused harm or trauma, loss of health or property? (or threaten environmental sustainability for the future
which is the big issue of today)
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:02 PM -
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Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:03 PM
Thank you all for all your amazing comments on the subject of forgiveness.
Personal update: I am no longer in a soul crises but have clarity and trust in the beauty of humanity. Just have to choose the right types. I think it's an interesting concept of everyone reflecting each other that ones actions are a part of ourselves I don't know if I personally believe that completely I know I live my life and treat people with a certain standard And I have been interacted in a way that I would never treat others. My reactions (and actions) were mine but others acted in a way that violated my values t: not the way I treat people. If I was president I know I would not put the majority of the budget towards military funding and international liberation cut education , health care and our own country infrastructure needs or continue to speak in public with such poor communication skills. As the population continues to grow and the resources not care taken properly within the structure of land being private property we are facing an increasing ratio of "haves and have nots" I personally think the issue of "equal rights" is one of the most interesting issues of human kind in a free will reality. I think because the majority of people have a basic belief equality , that the concept of injustice occurs. But equality of rights and resources has rarely if ever been actualized. The beauty of free will Some want to make money Some want to be poets and watch clouds Some want toys Some want weapons some want fame some want utopia some want to save the whales some want to seal skins for coats on and on all the free wills wanting different things and the interconnected space getting smaller and smaller with all the cause and effects rippling out Human reality is a very interesting thing How would you (if you were in a "leader" position in society and had (or wanted) the ability to create "laws" for the people how would you deal with one group of peoples freewill directly interfering with others free will choice point in case corporations in an effort to keep expenses down have machinery that violate environmental laws in a time where environmental protection is a low priority which is creating pollution and disease to citizens who live in the near by area , who would like to have health who's free will is honored profit or health standards and how does forgiveness apply in situations like these I have thought about this a lot ever since my clear cut protesting days I was yelling "No clear cutting" to a logger and I had the great opportunity for the logger to yell back "do you wipe your ass with toilet paper? do you write your silly poems on paper? do you live in a house with lumber? Your sign your holding is made from what your yelling no to" and it got me thinking that the No's are usually easier than the yes its easy to point the finger and wag it around a lot harder to actually create solutions and I am a sucker who does believe that solutions are possible I'm sorry that I'm rambling a bit I just think conflict of interests in the society realm is an interesting topic How would I resolve conflicts? The concept of the UN was a beautiful concept I really wish the United Nations would have had more ability to not become corrupt (but what is "corruption" another question) I would definitely have a system that had more than 2 choices to choose from I would representative in portion to the different values of its people and not have one value system ignored or not represented because it "lost" I have had the beautiful opportunity to experience tribal meeting about a community decision where the feather was passed around everyone who needed to express themselves and make a contribution could and no decision was agreed upon (or could leave the meeting) until the decision was something everyone could feel good about it took all day (was a long day) but finally a decision was made that was acceptable to all it was an inspiring experience to witness rare and I have no illusions that it would work on an international even city realm but for a tribal counsel it worked was inspirational that every voice mattered every need mattered and that there was a way to have an action where everyone felt satisfied communication was used by everyone and compromise or else no one would go home for dinner which had power to it as the hours went by there was something about the direct interaction of decisions being made by all that was inspiring and I have no illusions that this will work on a bigger scale I have no idea and less and less judgments lately part of me is just watching the chaos build more and more determined and dedicated to keeping my inner chaos down heal the parts of me that still need healing to do this and participate when I can for the social cause that draws me without becoming drained and create my art and live my life and blah blah blah my goodness this is quite the spew I have offered I have no idea how to deal with "injustice" I wouldn't be surprised if hardly anyone responses to this question but for some reason I felt inspired to ask it |
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Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:11 PM
i have no idea how i'd do it. i am in a constant battle with my own dark sides and still have not come to balance. so it's hard for me to imagine taking action on anyone else's. i may judge in my mind, but would find it hard to impose that judgement on someone. in a spontaneous moment i may be able to act, like the time a big mean dog threatened my cat and i went nuts chasing him off with a stick, screaming like a banshee. but deliberating on how to mete out justice would be beyond me right now. however i would find it quite easy to create laws that protected the earth and enforce them, laws about polluting and developing and destruction of the environment.
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Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:49 PM
I have nothing to contribute, but am fascinated by the topic.
I hope you extend on this and your last Blog! KK |
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Mon, April 28, 2008 - 7:14 PM
I find that most people want to have family and live in peace.
It is a good starting place. I do not know where it goes or how to get there. I only know it for myself and the little that I can share with others. |
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Mon, April 28, 2008 - 10:24 PM
We can try to teach people what is the right way. Then they can choose to change or remain in their old ways. If they choose the latter, we'll have to trust God to create the situations where these issues will be resolved.
It's a very important topic. I don't have all the answers yet, but I'm hopeful that they will be there when the time comes. |
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Tue, April 29, 2008 - 8:56 AM
Diversity and Sustainability is usually the answer.
Often times the opposing party has a relative point, or an almost ethical notion that what they are doing is correct, such as the toilet paper. Instead of argueing "clear cutting is wrong" you should cut back your approach to, Why not cut sustainable woods instead? Why not have a better recycling system? Why don't you use products and means you already have disposable to you such as wood chips? Why does it have to be this large tree in this particular forest. Diversification is the only way us humans can continue to survive. 100 years ago there wasn't enough arable land because everyone was making a living off of arable land, however with new technologies and innovations we have opened up whole microcosims and economies of scale that allow work and profit for everybody, What the world needs to learn is how to discover alternatives, not only in resources, but in ideas, and work habits.
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Tue, April 29, 2008 - 10:31 AM
approaching from a different angle
I do not believe that groups with conflicting interests can live in any state of harmony, and I think looking for ways to make it happen is somewhat an exercise in futility - groups without common interest cannot have common cause nor empathy.
Therefore the question changes and becomes answerable: how do we create groups of people with a commonality of interests who are able to co-operate and have empathy with each other? |
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Wed, April 30, 2008 - 10:27 AM
Pacifists by choice, have limited options, the one that I keep coming up with, is render harmless,
the means to do this requires a good deal of strength, intelligence and back-up, superior technology, education, and a majority of rule. It is not much comfort to know that this approach works, when implemented, only to know how massively, catastrophically it fails when methods of enlightenments are not employed. |
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Wed, April 30, 2008 - 4:53 PM
Empathy, Sacrifice, and Objectives.
With any conflict there needs to be some reasonable people who can identify the objectives. If you don't know what you are fighting about or can't put it down on paper - maybe you shouldn't be fighting... So, with an environmental problem - the objective usually is to provide health throughout the system and to have the system not do damage to the environment. Right away you have industries that want ___ and can give ____ reasons for it, the deal is though if its not sustainable and going to cause permanent damage, then the objective is wrong. So, find another material. Make it out of recycled content. Look at the mountains of waste currently as a resource. I think the fundamental problem with the environmental crisis is that people and industries are still accepting the idea of a product and waste. We have to move beyond what is deemed waste - into a closed loop. When the tail end of the system is looked at first, the problems become instantly clear. It doesn't biodegrade, it pollutes the water, it pollutes the air, it only lasts 2 years before it has to be replaced.... etc.
Once this becomes personal and spiritual, we are further on the right track. There is no such thing as 'waste' in the natural environement, and we shouldn't do things that 'waste' people either. So, when we ourselves stop making waste - and stop making people waste, we've already started answering many environemental justice questions. |
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Wed, April 30, 2008 - 7:36 PM
Polarity Integration
This topic fascinates me because my current studies and effort to understand why I am on Earth at this time has led me to the concept that we are here to assist the Earth and her inhabitants acheive Ascension. This will be accomplished through Polarity Integration.
However Dark these times may seem, every circumstance that you can imagine is comprised of persons playing the roles of Light and Dark and the struggle between them. What we must overcome is the idea that there must be struggle at all. I particularly enjoyed the comment above about the waste products. It would seem to me that how we are going to begin to heal this mess is not by punishment, but rather through integration of the waste. We are going to have to find a way that makes every process harmless to the environment, from agriculture to manufacturing. The way to do this is to be certain that there are no by-products in all of our systems in the first place. This also includes monetary transaction systems, wherein the "by-product" is the abuse of profit generation and wealth inequity. I think that this will be the way we restructure our business models so that they will be sustainable, rather than continuing to use the current wasteful systems and producing all of the waste in the first place. Think Burning Man, which strives to "leave no trace" of its existence. This is the path we are going to have to take. LOVE TO ALL dave |
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Thu, May 1, 2008 - 4:43 AM
Solutions not problems
Well, I can only speak from personal experience, since, I don't read books on such subjects, nor to I trust media enough to lend them credit. I would say that this answer depends on any given scenario. I will give two.
The first is of a military country such as Israel and the second is a community in arcata California. The First: Resolving conflict in Israel as been both challenging and and tiresome on a personal level. First the question that I posed for myself was what am I in conflict about. To understand what perspective I will be coming from and how I would like to approach this question. Am I angry or calm, do I feel comfortable or uncomfortable. The perspective is this: I see people hating each other because they are jealous, scared and have been roused by local military bureaucrats to be ready to be attacked. One man Israeli soldier told me that the Arabs (if not killed) will invade and kill everyone, so they must be stopped. One Israeli Soldier girl told me that she is proud to defend her country against attack from terrorist Arabs and will kills as many as she has to. My response to this is one of reserve. Build walls and separate. Don't force yourself into a confrontation where human life is at stake. Teach giving, acceptance and forgiveness and let live. Now, if the other party does not agree and continues to pick fights, Ignore them. In time they will get the message, that no body cares enough for their crusade. Don't however, leave yourself open to attack. Just live. The second: Community in Arcata, California Resolving conflict comes a bit less strenuously. However there was a time when I left myself open, as it were and I became subject to attack. At the time, I did not resolve this to the best of my sensibility. The situation is not important, just that I would do this differently today. First off, I lived in a small town that thrived on environmental issues and conservation. We recycled, watched water, had gardens, chickens, lives. Occasionally, something would happen, and there was a disagreement. People got together, talked about it, made sense of what happened, filled in the missing information, become better friends and life went on. I don't agree with the "it's all good" mentality. It's not all good, man! Sometimes, it's not close and we need to recognize this for health reasons ( moral, ethics, mental clarity). I found that folks mostly, did not like confrontation and would just agree and later get irate and sometimes silently vengeful. Between two people it's hard. Between a dozen, it can be a big weight. Happiness is key here. Man, I could go on and on, but I think i won't. But sit back and see what comes. Just kidding! The similarities between arcata and Israel are frightening. Who thinks for themselves? Who takes responsibility for what they do and not blame others for choices. What are the choices and what kinds of things can we achieve together? If nothing. Then we should separate ourselves for safety reasons. So that we do not endanger our environments. If something, we can learn to find ways of looking at differences that all just lead to the same thing: Happiness To answer the second part: How would you deal with people who treated others with injustice that caused harm or trauma, loss of health or property? or threaten environmental sustainability for the future. I would talk to them, to get a sense of how I am dealing with. I would not jump to conclusions (hear-say) and would not confront them and put them on the defensive. I would want to get to know them as a person to understand the conflict better with in me. If two people can relate and agree on something, anything, then mountains (figuratively) can be moved in the way of public relations and happiness for all people. I would not put someone down, but encourage them to do better. |
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Thu, May 1, 2008 - 4:48 AM
One little comment more...
I also want to add that I don't believe in god or that something will save us. It is up to us to find ways that work, not just the ways that don't work. There are only solutions, not problems.
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Thu, May 1, 2008 - 8:44 AM
If we do as the Hopi do and consider the consequences on the 7th generation in everything we do, we could to begin to heal this mess we put our planet in. When we begin to see we are a part of the whole..that this planet is a gift and we are the caretakers, then we can begin to heal ourselves. As long as we fight over religion we will never get anywhere. To truly realize that we are NOT the GODHEAD but a part of the light, we will be free.
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Thu, May 1, 2008 - 11:23 AM
Feathers and fires
I am working on getting into the international evironmental law field because I do think its possible to have an international "tribal council." I think the current international forums are most definitely organized for exactly such a process....the problem in them from my viewpoint is that the members are not representative of everyone. Large corporate interests have a greater pull in them because they are better prepared to get involved. Environmental NGOs are making a good showing as well, but environmental NGOs often have a narrow interest in a particular area and can be blind to the other issues be they environmental or human. Indigenous groups, the most seriously harmed people in environmental injustice, are rarely represented. People in South and Central America have often found themselves at odds with environmental groups because the group wants to eliminate people from an area in order to protect it while the indigenous people need access to the area to survive. They are not the ones causing harm generally, they are the ones that were taking care of the areas for the past 2000 years. When it comes to the environment, we do have a common interest, we may be motivated to the interest for different reasons (sustainable income, sustainable food supply, ethical protection of the helpless, etc.). No one wants to render the planet incapable of sustaining life. We need to understand that fact and we need to understand the various motivations. Only then can we begin to really work together to obtain the common goal. Environmentalists distrust politicians, corporations (especially the ones claiming to strive for sustainability). WE NEED to have a little more faith. Alienating all other groups out of distrust is not the way to work together to solve problems.
As a side note...I have never been to burning man but I have a lot of friends that have and from what I hear, it is the farthest one could possibly get from sustainability and environmental justice. Burning items that are reusable or recyclable? Wasting perfectly good items that someone else may find useful for the sake of claiming immaterialism? Polluting the air with horrid chemicals by burning not only wood and paper products but plastics and fabrics of all sorts? And let's not forget how flipping expensive it is to take part in such a wasteful display of ignorance! I challenge the next burning man festival to stop the fire and bring in habitat for humanity and goodwill trucks to collect the unwanted items and dispense them to people that can't afford to simply burn what little they own each year and buy new!!! |
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Thu, May 1, 2008 - 3:06 PM
Reality Check!!!
We are all facing a global panetary crisis that is affecting ALL of us.
Educate ... we're not going to have a planet to live on if we continue along our current path. If everyone lived the way they do in the USA we'd need 7 planet Earth's to sustain us. We only have 1. Get the picture? End Game ... Final Moves!!! Find the common ground --> leads to common goals Change the Dream of the Modern World Evidence ... provide the evidence - food shortages, Oxygen shortages, disease, Sixth Mass Extinction Event (review the previous ones), the oceans are anticipated to be depleted of life by 2048 per National Geographic, the rainforest is going to be 80% deforested by 2020 and it provides us with 50% of our oxygen Hopi Prophesy ... those with the eyes to see and the ears to hear will know and understand what to do. Fact - you get to come back as many times as you need to get this. This is graduation time for some, others will need to return. Hopi Prophesy -- those who hear the call will go to higher ground and find new sustainable ways of living, those who don't will dig the graves of their own demise. Core Values that are common to everyone ... food, air, clean water, shelter Solutions for World Peace include Off the Grid Communities that are regenerative and self sustaining: 1. Generate their own power 2. Collect their own water 3. Process their own waste 4. Grow their own food 5. Do their own health care Change can be scary so provide examples ... Russia, Italy, Indigenious cultures, etc. The best way to make a change is to create a system that is so superior that it renders the old one OBSOLETE!!! Consider this ... beings with Supreme intelligence don't war, don't use money and have superior quality of life ... per the Vardents the largest species in the Universe 500Billion. According to them we're about a 2 out of 10 on the consciousness scale ... but many of us are popping open and pulling the others up! Those are my thoughts for now! Thanks for asking! Blessings, Heather |
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Thu, May 1, 2008 - 5:22 PM
educate those who will listen and take action
sue* those who don't listen, those who pretend to listen and those who take counterproductive action gpb *this is the civilized form of combat. there are, of course, others |
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Fri, May 2, 2008 - 2:51 PM
Resolving different values
You have to communicate with people at their level, speak their language, use terms they understand. You have to work with people's value structure, not work to change their values. An example: how do you get conservative evangelical Christians to adopt environmentalism? You show them that it is God's intent that we be Stewards of the Earth, and despoiling His creation is a sin. You haven't changed their values, you've gotten them to adopt a value using terms they understand. Another example: aids in Africa is rampant, due to sharing needles and unprotected sex. An effective campaign was tried in the 90's with the slogan "Keep the African blood pure." This was effective because the people's values include tribalism and loyalty to one's tribe and bloodline. Using terms they could understand, and without changing their values, they can come to the correct action: don't share needles or have unprotected sex. If you know how to communicate with people at their level, any conflict can be resolved.
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Sat, May 3, 2008 - 5:05 PM
conflicts of interests, solutions
conflict is resolved through truth and reconciliation. expending vigorous non violent effort helps, too. bringing about change starts with the one. it might take eons, but according to einstein, time is relative.
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Sat, May 3, 2008 - 7:09 PM
Conflict must be resolved in a neutralising way. There is a way for each conflict. A balance of truths, a third eye opening. When we Know and we Love, there is no conflict
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Sun, May 4, 2008 - 3:55 AM
As very small beings in the universe, I don't know...we are little tiny sparks of the vastness of creation - do our little conflicts really have any significance or importance to the whole other than that of experience...sorry, in an esoteric mood. Blessings
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Thu, May 8, 2008 - 12:45 AM
Abe
Lincoln actually commented on this question.
He was asked, by a temperance group, how to get their message across. He said that first you have to connect with the heart of the person in question. If you do that, they will listen to whatever you have to say. If you don't do that, they won't listen to anything you have to say. So, with conflict, I think the underlying problem to resolve is how to connect with the "other side" - on a human level. I think everything proceeds from there. I think we have to be able to see them as people and have compassion for them on that basis. I think that is the seed to making that connection. |
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Fri, May 9, 2008 - 3:01 AM
etc
well theres a few things.
the first is to realize that most of our apparent conflicts are perpetuated by propaganda artists who proffit from conflict. Most people don't have anything to fight over until they get some evil jerk whispering in their ear some bs thats a distortion or lie. so the first thing i think we should do is define the difference between free speach and propaganda and outlaw the latter. The next thing i think we should do is educate the public about real problem solving process. Most people don't have real answers to their problems and arre programmed to blame other people. Next we should focus on formal conversational logic, so that people can actually start making rational choices instead of irrational ones. Next, NVC or non violent communication. Finally, the peacemakers have to draw people together to show that in truth we are all connected and that all of us are linked to each other especially when it comes to real prosperity. Even the luxocrats suffer in truth by creating a society which has its top and middle and bottom. Most conflicts are not conflicts of interests, but conflicts of perspective spun by evil jerks so that they can divide and conquer. We need to realize who the real enemy is of the the people which is corporate oligarchy and the luxocrats, destroy their influence and their power and put a lot of them in prison. The rest need to be educated and taught ethics, and we can explain to them systems theory and how by keeping a top and bottom they are also hurting themselves. |
