Intuitive Astrology
astrotribe.tribe.net/

KMT Ancient Metaphysical Egypt
tribes.tribe.net/kmt

"God is consciousness and the fusion into action and manifestation, the potential for all that is, out of Nowhere"

www.psitek.net/pages/PsiTekDCWMHS31.html

There does not have to be a start point or a creation point. Imagine something that always was, and always will be. You have heard the circle analogy before, no start or end point, or the mobius strip, anything which curves back into itself is immortal! That is the self-reflexive nature of consciousness itself.

Yes we have heard that before, but it’s impossible to have something which always WAS, even if you can design something like a torus6 which can reflect back in on itself forever.

Just as the energy within the torus reflects back in on itself, so too can thought reflect back in on itself and create that which it is reflecting back in upon, namely, itself.

Hmm… I guess I just don’t get it. It must be one of those profound pieces of bullcrap that is above my level of awareness.

Well, we are trying to explain something which has never been created, to those who believe there MUST be a start point to something. And that is true, there must be a start point to something. Consciousness is not a thing. A thing is that which is created from consciousness –– a result of thought.

Consciousness is that–which–creates–itself.

Yes, but you said that consciousness creates thought and can perceive thought, so it must, fundamentally, be compatible with energy and have mass. Energy must be created because something can’t come from nothing. Even a photon that supposedly has no mass must have been created! So who or what created the energy that reflects–back–in–on– itself and forms consciousness?

Our answer is that which creates itself creates the energy which reflects back in on itself to continually create itself again and again. This is the seed – tree – fruit analogy, the fruit contains the seed, which then starts the cycle all over again.

Ask yourself, where did your virtual potential come from? You say, it did not come from anything because it IS nothing –– it doesn’t exist but is the creator of all things. That is no different from what we say –– we are just using different words. The only important thing is that there is no starting point –– there is just continuing. In a linear perception of time this makes no sense, because in human form you can see the body born, grow, and die, so you conceive that there must be a start (and end) point. But there IS no start point, do you get a little bit of what we are saying?

There IS no start point –– that is just how it must be said.

A conscious aware being has always been conscious, by definition. It can never ‘remember’ a ‘time’ when it was not conscious. By definition, consciousness is forever, with no start or end point. The idea of start and end is a wonderful thing, truly it is. It is one of the concepts that enabled an eternal consciousness to dream up a physical existence in the first place –– in order to experience what it would be like to have a ‘begin’ point and an ‘end’ point!

Yes, but when you are building something you have to start somewhere!

Yes, that is true — when you build someTHING you have to start somewhere. A THING must always have a start point –– a car starts out as minerals in the ground, an apple starts out growing as a bud from an apple tree, etc.

But consciousness has always been and always will be –– because it is self aware, and something which is self–aware cannot conceive of a ‘time’ when it was NOT.

OK, I get a little bit of what you are saying — but just because consciousness can’t conceive of when it was not doesn’t mean that something greater than itself could have created it. What about the apple tree? You say it is conscious, but there was no apple tree there at one time! Something else had to come along and plant the seed so that it could then become conscious. So consciousness MUST have a start point!

*Yes, but we ask, who planted the seed? *It was a conscious being! So consciousness existed before the apple tree became conscious.

Yes that is what I am saying! A greater consciousness planted the seed so that the lower consciousness could experience.

Well, you need to look a little deeper. You are assuming again that that there is one consciousness of the apple tree, and another consciousness separate or higher than it, which planted the seed and created the consciousness of the apple tree.

We tell you IT IS ALL THE SAME CONSCIOUSNESS.

The consciousness of the tree is the consciousness of the human who planted the seed –– it is all the same thing, just focused differently.
OK, then if universal consciousness created this universe, then there must be other universal consciousness just like it, creating other universes, and so what appears to be universal consciousness is really just an extension of an even larger consciousness, which then is part of a larger consciousness, etc. Where is all this going?

You have gotten yourself into quite a conundrum! From our vantage point we do not perceive any beginnings or endings of our awareness. We have always been and always will be, that is something so integral to us that it is never even an issue. You see, we are so busy having fun, endless, always different and exciting fun, that it just does not seem to us to be ‘real’ in any sense.

To sum up, from our vantage point: awareness, consciousness, always was and always will be. That’s just how it is perceived, known on all ‘levels,’ as some humans would say, to any conscious being.

So I am never going to get an answer to the question of who or what created consciousness.

You can’t get an answer because there is no answer, IF you are looking for an answer which requires there to be a higher power that creates consciousness, do you see? There is really only one answer, and that is consciousness itself!

This is the ultimate answer to the ultimate question!

Consciousness is the alpha, the omega, the beginning, the ending, the creator of all things, the experiencer of all things. An answer means ‘here is the response that tells you how it will be forever and ever.’ We have responded with an answer that tells you that consciousness is always aware of itself and there never was/is/will be a ‘time’ when it is not aware of itself. So this should satisfy you!

This may sound confusing, but we are trying our best to express in words something which IS itself, the answer to every possible question that could be asked by itself.... you see, the whole thing is always circular, always never–ending and never–beginning, always itself the answer to any question which could be asked... (by whom? itself, of course!).

Whew! OK, my brain is spinning and my mind is out of control. We’ll stop now. Thanks