What's my line...
God--Yes or No?
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 10:21 AMWhen reading the Ten Commandments, it begins with:
"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God… "
and continues with...
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
Now, I am confused, if these are actually the words of God, how does one square such words that could be interpreted as being jealous, arrogant, and envious? According to 1 Cornthians 13:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."
The line about not having carved images... what about the statues of saints and the crosses with Jesus, are they not carved images? Do people not pray to thdem as fervently as they do to God?
I think Mark Twain got it right, when he write "Letters from Earth". If you are not familiar with amazing work, I highly recommend it as a powerful testament to the possibilities of spirituality, without having to be dragged into organized religions that are not always loving and that often times appears jealous, arrogant and envious.
I believe is goodness and joy, love and respect, I believe that all people have a right to dignity, family and peace, without be forced to conform to other's belief systems. That does not mean that those who do believe in God are completely wrong, but that they are also not completely right.
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 10:21 AM -
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Sun, April 27, 2008 - 10:37 AM
I have a lot of questions for God/about God too. And I haven't read Mark Twain's "Letters from the Earth," but I've always liked J. Krishnamurti's book "On God," which similarly discusses spirituality without reliance on organized religion. Thanks for posting this blog, always nice to hear what other people are thinking...
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Sun, April 27, 2008 - 12:10 PM
Love is tricky! I see your point...............
Very thought provoking blog, Daveed
I am rejoicing in the fact that our ancestors are no longer slaves in Egypt. Good Yontif. God is a very slippery subject. Eli has been asking about god (he's 4) and sometimes I am actually stumped for answers, and I bet I am not the only one. I always find it so interesting we someone has such a strong, infalliable idea of god. How do they know? |
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Sun, April 27, 2008 - 2:52 PM
Random thoughts....
Hi there -
You bring up some very interesting points - I have a small question for you though....what translation were you quoting for the 10 Commandments? I ask because it sounds like it may have been the King James Version. There are some very important things to remember when you look at translations of anything (whether it be song lyrics, literature, anything translated) and those things are: who translated it? Who commissioned the translation (and why)? There is a very interesting story behind the KJV bible - www.allabouttruth.org/King-Ja...ible.htm I don't trust the KJV as far as I can throw it - for several reasons, but the most notable being that we don't speak Olde English anymore and many of the language nuances are lost on us so that when we read the words, it means something very different than what it would mean to the people of 1611. I'd also like to point out that the 10 Commandments were written at a time when the Israelites understood God to be a jealous and vengeful God. Then Jesus came along and proclaimed a new covenant of loving and caring for everyone (which sadly, got him nailed to a tree - but like any good martyr, it started a movement). THEN, many years later, Paul came along and addressed some problems amongst those in a congregation in Corinth - Paul is extremely easy to take out of context and twist around (I offer up the Moral Majority as an example) Which brings me to my point (finally!) In regards to the Abrahamic religions, the bible is not the end-all-be-all (unless you're part of the contingent that believes that the bible was divinely dictated, not divinely inspired) it is the story of one people's faith journey. There are many understandings of the divine, this is not the only one. Any religion or person who tells you to blindly believe (or not believe) in anything (clergy, health professional, reiki master, etc) should always be treated with suspicion :-) Many blessings |
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Mon, April 28, 2008 - 5:55 AM
your quest
Perhaps God is not to be found in a book. Look into your own heart instead. I have seen glimpses of God in your kindness.
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Mon, April 28, 2008 - 7:50 AM
I don't believe in "God", in the sense that it's a HE, and that "HE" makes or does things, or even that there is an external force that says things, or causes things..
So, I pretty much ignore the Bible, at least in its references to God. I do however, believe in a common force between all things.. I believe that it is the "spiritual essense" which people can find when they ultimately let go of their everyday lives, and their constantly working minds.. I think it is what Buddhists call Satori, and Christians feel when they "Accept Jesus" and "live in the kingdom of heaven". To me, it's all one and the same.. |
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Mon, April 28, 2008 - 1:48 PM
Hi Daveed and others.
Daveed when you wrote > Today I have some questions about God, being that from Fri through Sunday is suppose to be his time according to Islam, Judaism and > Christianity. are you referring to Passover, Easter, and some Islamic holiday as well? This year, because of some random weirdness with how the modern Christian calender lined up with full moons, Easter was early and was last month instead of this weekend. I don't particularly care about the details of individual translations, except that by comparing them you can see that specific meanings of individuals passages often change radically, and sometimes change very little. I think you must look for repeated themes, who the speakers/writers were, who they were writing to, and when they were written (meaning language groups, cultures, and time periods). Some of the more annotated bibles give you this information. So often I hate it when a clergy person pulls little bits from many different places in the bible to make a point without taking each passage in context. It is absolutely true that the bible is inconsistent. There are many possible explanations for this, from "God works in mysterious ways" to "we have an incomplete understanding" to "it's all a pile of bull shit". How you take as an individual really is a matter of faith. People with very profound faith and overall sensible beliefs won't be deterred by deep and detailed study. People with more shaky faith and/or contradictory beliefs that come from insistent parents or cult-ish congregations may be shy of careful study, or may have crises of dogma faith from careful study. This is certainly what happened to me from the age of 5 on up. Now on to your questions Daveed: > Now, I am confused, if these are actually the words of God, how does one square such words that could be interpreted as being jealous, > arrogant, and envious? I see no contradiction with the concept of God's love in the early books of the Old Testament. God's love is a jealous, arrogant, and envious love in these books. Even though these early books probably existed as separate writings spanning a wide range of time, God is consistent in acknowledging that other people who are not the chosen people worship other deities, and insists that the chosen people should not. The Ten Commandments come from Exodus, which is a book intended both as historical document and giving law. The Corinthians books are New Testament letters written to new Christians, to encourage them, give them specific guides, and spread the word of Jesus as Savior. It show's Paul's understanding of the newer Christian ideals of love among people on earth and vis-a-vis Jesus. This is a different concept than the early old testament concept of the same name. > The line about not having carved images... what about the statues of saints and the crosses with Jesus, are they not carved images? Do > people not pray to thdem as fervently as they do to God? Yes, and some branches of Christianity didn't/don't approve. Neither does Islam. > I believe is goodness and joy, love and respect, I believe that all people have a right to dignity, family and peace, without be forced to > conform to other's belief systems. That does not mean that those who do believe in God are completely wrong, but that they are also not > completely right Right there with you. You should be warned however that many dogmatic people of any almost any religious hold the belief that "right" and "wrong" can only emanate from God. In this view, any sense of "right" or "wrong" that is not based on scripture is a kind of moral relativism. Also, since moral relativism serves mankind or only serves some people, instead of conforming to God's will, it must be entirely "wrong". |
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Tue, April 29, 2008 - 8:37 PM
Yes or No? No.
Humans are genetically driven to look up to a leader, much as wolves are, so we will create one in our image.
I know many who live their lives with zero belief in god, no remorse about it, and consider themselves more moral than many fundamentalists. Such viewpoints avoids dilemmas such as "if it's god's will that a baby be saved from the February 2008 tornadoes in Tennessee, then it must also have been his will that 59 other people, including the baby's mother, died." What frightens me is that no candidate for higher office in the US stands a chance if they are an atheist, yet Huckleberry can run for President while denying the scientific reality of evolution. Good luck in your quest, Daveed. Consider secular humanism as the choice of pragmatic reason. |
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Wed, April 30, 2008 - 8:26 AM
it's a bit complicated
Hi Daveed and all,
It's very easy to attach these human emotions to God ( whom I'll refer to from this point on as Hashem), as in the Torah his motives and attitudes are strange and confusing at times. I'm no expert, though those of you who know me may remember my times in Israel studying (mostly Zohar) Hassidic Mysticism. I'll try my best on a Jewish angle to explaining the logic. Now in terms of other beliefs... no can do. ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.' ~~This commandment is to make sure the people understand that God is EVERYTHING, and should not be limited. For example, by worshiping the Snake as your god, you show reverence to the Snake, but lower all the other aspects of Hashem. This is not a good idea, as while the snake will prosper, it's worshipers will go about killing it's natural predators, and breeding mice, etc... changing the world for the worse. SEE: MONEY/POWER TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.' ~Reinforcing the above commandment. THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.' Like, OMG. I saw this, like, movie the other day, and like, OMG, it was so boring! It was all like, old and boring, OMG, it's name was so dumb too! Citizen Kane, LAME! ~~consider this commandment protection from the above conversation and all like it. :) |
