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Why God cannot incarnate... and why people who say they are incarnations of god are cheaters don't be fooled by these dogmas....
Sun, March 12, 2006 - 5:37 PMunborn:
Rigveda 1.67.3: “The unborn (Aja) God is holding together the
whole universe including the earth, the space, the sky and the
luminous stars like the Sun”
Rigveda 6.50.14: “God is unborn and is so great that the
world is like his one footstep. O great God, listen to our prayers.”
Rigveda 7.35.3: “May Unborn God be gracious to us all, may the
clouds of sky shower rains for our well being.”
Yajurveda 40.8: “O human being! Worship God who is
Omnipotent and devoid of any kind of body i.e. Sthoola, Sukshma or
Kaarana Shareera. He is free from all the bondage of nerves or
veins, is Omnipresent, all knowledgeable, he punishes the sinners, is
Beginningless, eternal and has bestowed the knowledge of the
Vedas. He and only He is adorable.”
The soul is an infinitesimal unity hence it can move from one
place to another or come down from up or in any direction. In
Emancipation, the emancipated soul can come down or go up
anywhere in the universe with its will. Some times there is an
extreme will of the imbodied soul (Godly person or Lord i.e. Bhagwan)
to serve the common man even after death with grace of God. If it is
embodied in the future e.g. the great soul like Lord Krishna who
explains his most loveable disciple friend Arjuna in the Geeta: ---
• “Yadaa Yadaa Hi Dharmasya Glanirbhavati Bhaarata,
Abhyutthaanamadharmasya Tadaatmaanam Srijyaamyaham”.
(Geeta: 4/7)
"Whenever there is decay of righteousness, O Bharata (O
Arjuna)! And a rise of Un righteousness, then manifest myself, (with
the grace of God) for the protection of the good, for the destruction of
the wicked and for the establishment of righteousness, I am born in
every age (If God permits me). Or-- O Bharata with the grace of God,
if He permits me, “whenever there is decay of righteousness and a
rise of unrighteousness, (it is my extreme wish) to be born on earth
to protect the good, for the destruction of the wicked and for the
establishment of righteousness”.
Here it is clear that Shri Krishna was a human being not
God. Human beings take birth, this is their incarnation with the grace
of almighty God. But ordinary simpleteous ignorant people have
misunderstood the meaning of the most popular Shloka of the Geeta
(the epic of Hindu community), which is being misquoted by selfish
gurus who want their disciples to worship them as God
If incarnation of God is assumed, many of His very important
attributes automatically stand confuted.
If a phase or part of God is believed to take birth, in such
case God will not continue to remain wholly perfect (as all those who
are born and die are subject to limitations and imperfections). If we
believe in His birth naturally His death will follow.
God will then be accepted as the cycle of birth and death like normal beings.
If a phase or part like God takes birth, the attributes of phase or part
logically exist in the whole also. It means before birth and after death
He did not exist.
His attribute of being Beginningless (anaadi) and
infinite (annant) eternal and His All- Pervading nature will stand
confuted.
God is all pervading in every minutest particle and atom as
such in an incarnation where from He will come and whither He will
go? If by incarnation God takes a form qualified with limitation (of an
animal, of a human being or of any other), His attributes of
formlessness, and limitlessness or of infinity is contradicted.
It is impossible to believe the argument that infinite God can be confined
into the womb of a mother or in any form shape or body.
It would be against all logic to believe that God does take a
human or other form and still He remains formless too.
It is never possible to hold such diagonally opposite attributes together
simultaneously nor it is understandably acceptable to a person with
open mind reasoning.
All the incarnations were subjected to suffering, pain and
happiness in their lives, hence, by accepting such incarnations, God
cannot be proved to be free from pain and pleasure. Their lives are
full of changes, so God loses the attribute to changeless (Avikaari).
Further all incarnations grew old so God like ordinary man also have
to be conceived as decaying. Besides all the incarnations of God met
with death, as all know that Bhagwan Shri Krishna was shot by an
arrow, and others also died in some way or the other. Being so how
would it be possible to prove that God is immortal and imperishable.
It is said that God to further the cause of righteousness, to
kill the demons, to punish the wicked, to eradicate the evil and to
bless His devotees, incarnates himself. Out of the four Yugas, the
Satayuga is said to be the foremost in righteousness, while in the
Tretaa, the Dwaapara and the Kaliyuga as righteousness tend to
decrease and sins go on increasing gradually. It is but strange to
uphold the necessity of 23 out of 24 incarnations in the holy ages of
Satayuga, Dwaapara and Tretaa and only one out of the twenty-four
incarnations in Kaliyuga, the most sinful period who is still awaited.
If the purpose of incarnation is to uphold righteousness, their
least number should have been in Satayuga and the largest number
in Kaliyuga, but the position is reverse, Is it reasonably conceivable?
The logic that God incarnates to kill demons is to
underestimate the Omnipotent God. The Omnipresent, Who can
create the whole universe and can only destroy the universe by
deluge, cannot be believed to incarnate and to suffer all agony of the
coming into the womb of a mother, just to kill Ravana, Kansa and
other demons, who were not even a drop compared to the universe.
The Omnipresent God was inside the body of the demons
also, He could kill them from within their own bodies, then why
incarnation?
It is also said that God incarnates for the enactment of his
sports (Lila) and His might.
The whole universe with numberless stars, the Moon, the
Sun, the Milky Way, the miraculous acts are so vivid and impressive
proof of His might. Lila that in comparison to all this, the acts of
incarnations are totally insignificant, that is not understandable to
bring the Almighty, Omnipresent God to the level of animal forms or
to human level, full of limitations and not devoid of errors as well.
Maata Sita who was forced to face Agni-Pariksha (fire ordeal)
succeeded there, but even then she was exiled while she was
pregnant. Further Cheeraharana or taking away garments of ladies
bathing from riverbanks. Killing all the generals of the Kauravas
against the rules of war decided at the start of the Mahabharata war,
killing all the innocent Kshatriyas because one Kshatriya killed the
father of Shri Parshurama and Shri Rama and Parshurama both
incarnations were face to face in struggle in the court of Janaka, are
all such instances. The list of which could be stretched to any length.
Yogis and Rishis (saints and sages) worship God for their whole life
to get rid of the cycle of birth and death, the pains of birth and the
horrors of death.
The sad part of the concept is that the devotees of the same
God have believed God Himself to come in the cycle of birth and
death, when salvation is the aim of human life attainable by the
grace of God Himself. Is it the gratitude of the devotees towards
God?
Lord Krishna took trouble to save the humiliation of one
Draupadi, today millions of ladies are being humiliated. Further, to
save the life of one elephant, Lord Vishnu ran barefooted, today
millions of cows are slaughtered daily for meals, with the first ray of
the rising sun. The righteousness, faith in God and His worship, the
Vedas, the functions of religious rituals, human character with
behavior, food, drinks, are today at the unimaginable and
unprecedented low level, indescribable in words. The question is
where is the incarnation of God now? All this proves practically the
hollowness of the concept of incarnation.
God is all pervading in every minutest particle and atom as
such in an incarnation where from He will come and whither He will
go? If by incarnation God takes a form qualified with limitation (of an
animal, of a human being or of any other), His attributes of
formlessness, and limitlessness or of infinity is contradicted.
!! aum shanti !!
Sun, March 12, 2006 - 5:37 PM -
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10 Comments
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Sun, March 12, 2006 - 6:59 PM
Maybe God incarnates (not All of All That IS, but just a piece) so that he can play with us. So we can know him and experience him. Manishbhai, who are we to say what God can or cannot do?
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Sun, March 12, 2006 - 10:04 PM
All that exists comes from the outpouring of the Creative Force that radiates from That Source that we call God...
There is a spectrum, a range of Self-Awareness within everything....some beings realize that they are members of the Divine Family none of the time. Some beings realize that they participate in Cosmos some of the time. Some beings live in full awareness of their True Nature as Eternal Consciousnes perpetually. These could be called enlightened or awakened...i do not know if if means that they are Avatars in the traditional meaning of this word. I automatically shy away from cults of personality that do not admit the humanity of their origins. However, i do not have any direct experience of the Godmen or Godwomen that are worshipped in this way. There are many vampires in the world...it is easy to become convinced that you are personally God when everyone around treats you that way for years. I call it "going Kalki"....starts off as being a teacher...moves onto becoming a Guru....then a World-Guru....then it turns out that, yes....Kalki, the Tenth Avatar of Vishnui is here in the Flesh! How many Kalki's are there? It is possible that my ridicule comes from lack of experience. There are many who feel that they have been carried far into the blissful worlds of self-realisation by communion with the Saints... |
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Sun, March 12, 2006 - 10:30 PM
my opinion:
We are ALL incarnations of God, just not all of us realize it. |
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Mon, March 13, 2006 - 7:43 AM
All That Is includes us...
i suppose it would depend on how one views All *) |
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Mon, March 13, 2006 - 4:14 PM
god lives
good blog because it makes people think and like me want to respond. no real master will say s/he is god, but to their devotees s/he is god. perhaps only a bhakta can understand this and know that god's greatest gift is god born as a human. god incarnates everyday constantly.
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Tue, March 14, 2006 - 12:46 PM
Yin...meet Yang! Shati...meet Shiva!
It is all Lila (Leela!) So much Beauty in the World...and so much trouble..all dancing simutaneously! I have heard Great Wise-ones speak of One-ness with God! And Christ Jesus said "I and my Father are One!" Sri Yogananda speaks of Self-Realization; God Consciousness! And Wise- ones speak of God~Goddesses Love for / through Creation! The Ecstatics speak of the Divine as Lover...Saint Francis speaks of God's Love for all creatures! Amachi and Sri Karunamayi speak of our responsibility to God and Life through Love and Compassion and Cultivating these plus Wisdom...for All Beings! The new-agers, no, w speak of Co-creation with thr Divine... The True Christians speak of Glorifying God! The Sufis call God the Friend, the Beloved! Countries go to war with "God on their side!" I LOVE God~Goddess! I Am that I Am! Om So Ham~Om So Hum! And the Dalai Lama says "I am a simple monk!" The best teachers are the most humble! We have All got a lot to learn! Thanks Manish for sharing knowlege of the veda! We all have a lot to learn! Compassion is a key~so is Love! May our Knowlege, fueled by Compassion, Flower into Wisdom! May All Beings be Happy and Free! Om Lokaha Samamstaha Sukhino Bhavantu! Aum Shanti, Shanti, Shanti! |
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Thu, March 16, 2006 - 5:17 PM
Oh!
The question just occurred to me:
Has this idea been presented in Bharati Cinema? Has there been an Indian equivalent of, say "Jesus Christ SuperStar" or "Last Temptation of Christ" wherein it is asked "what if this Teacher was a man who realized God, not a demi-God?" These movies caused quite a stir of controvercy when they came out. Has anyone made a movie that portrayes Lord Krishna, for example, as a man who attained God-Consciosness but was still simply a master-teacher rather than a God? Same for Sri Rama, etc? The pandit with who i studied for a short while in Florida presented the Devas in this way... yogis who realized Brahman through the practise of Yoga...who realized "Tat Tvam Asi" has there been any modern popular culture treatment of this idea? |
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Sat, March 18, 2006 - 12:08 PM
Rama certainly claimed to be just a man, as it was only as a man (and with the help of some Monkeys and Bears!) that he was able to defeat Ravana.
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Sun, March 19, 2006 - 5:36 PM
thanks for your posts and questions ! I am sorry to respond so late all faults to new tribe functions i was not used to it
Ok let me start with responding to cynthia first ...
[quote] cynthia wrote : Manishbhai, who are we to say what God can or cannot do? [/quote] Well cynthiabhen I don't know about you but I am the janani yogi free thinkers and i practice rajyoga too but I won't discuss about rajyoga ... God is nowhere in my consciousness because god is in itself consciousness. and this is perceived as the only Reality for which all the planes of relative consciousness are given up. So being a realised yogi we can define God . [quote] Arun wrote: It is possible that my ridicule comes from lack of experience. There are many who feel that they have been carried far into the blissful worlds of self-realisation by communion with the Saints... *clip rand* [/quote] Let your blissful words come Arun I can see something in your words that you see in bible that is the second coming ... yes it has to come from within all of us will have to be awakened may be by some spiritual leader or maybe some other, all the prophesys are same maitriya , vishnu puran, bible or even kuran (quaimat) but one thing you should note not a single person alone can concoure a battle all of us will have to be together that is the coming from within. and I guess that is what you mean. [quote] shiva priya wrote: perhaps only a bhakta can understand this and know that god's greatest gift is god born as a human. god incarnates everyday constantly. [/quote] kabir das has said : " Guru gobind dau khare kake lagun pain , balihari aapne gobind diya bataye" means I am in delusion as to whose feet to touch first when god and guru both are before me at the same time then god himself said that touch your guru's feet first as only he can tell you who i am . you are right a relation between a diciple and a guru is unexplainable and he is of more importance as through him only you can realise the consciousness called but remember that does not make your guru as God no. A guru should onle be as a guide on your path to reach the ultimate consciousness called . !! AUM SHANTI !! |
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Mon, August 7, 2006 - 10:41 AM
I hear God can not incarnate.....I see it as..
Once you graduate..you don't ungraduate. Meaning once you reach the highest peak you don't go backwards...and to incarnate as a person after being a god is pointless...why would a god want to be a person? When people have so many issues and limits...if I was a god I would not want to be less then that.. To be a God is a goal...to be a human is a process of learning to unlearn the limits of our humanness |
