What's Up...
quick informal update on tribe status
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:19 AM
a lot of people have been posting and emailing with concerns about tribe. here's the quick status on tribe. tribe has been living off the cash it generates from showing adsense ads for the past 7-8 months. that has generally been enough to pay for bandwidth and two full time employees (darren and wendy) who manage the server uptime and cusomter support. from time to time the site has been lucky enough to get off hrs input from former developers like brian and jenni.
going forward, a lot of people have offered to pay for a premium account or make donations to support the site. if we could generate another $60-70k a year (about $5k per month) we could hire a full-time engineer to work on more serious maintenance and even new features (like a cool newsfeed like facebook has). that might require 1000 subscribers at $5 per month. i love the idea of testing this out.
if you have further thoughts email me (mark@tribe.net) and andrew trader (at@tribe.net). we may not be able to respond to everyone but will try.
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:19 AM -
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133 Comments
133 Comments |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 5:02 AM
Totally reasonable to keep tribe alive for $5/month. I wondered what was going on and not heard much. This would be good to add this message to everyone's front page to keep them informed. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 5:16 AM
Sounds totally reasonable
premium memberships would be just fine. I think there's plenty of interest in your proposal. Go for it. Get a wrench monkey for tribe.
I would like a premium membership but have 0 interest in a news feed. I don't think anybody really wants another site vying to be there "all in one" go-to site. I'd like to be able to use some basic html like <i>, <ol> , ul, b, in posts to help aid the whole semafore of online communication. No emoticaons wanted though, thank you very much. How about filesharing widget like the Box.net widgie box they have over at wordpress.com's blogs for our homepages. Premium folks get the widget or everybody does and more $ can mean more bytes of storage. An idea. And of course, power users get a gold star or purple halos next to their name everywhere!! :) |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 5:57 AM
Thank you, Mark!
Some of us had been getting worried that you might just shut down Tribe because we hadn't heard anything one way or the other. Unlike MySpace and Facebook, Tribe's emphasis on discussion makes it unique and more viable (to my life, at least) than those other social networking sites.
I'm pleased to hear that you're still interested in Tribe and that you are willing to experiment with business models to keep it going. Thank you! |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:54 AM
Glad you want to keep Tribe alive. I've spent a lot of time here in the last 2 years and met a lot of interesting people. It's become a daily part of my life. $5 a month is pretty cheap all things considered. Count me in and thanks for keeping Tribe alive.
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 9:45 AM
Count me in as well. We expect to hear details soon, concerning this and how we are to help you.:)
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 9:55 AM
the majority of people i have talked with would be willing to pay a premium. i love tribe and have found nothing even close to it elsewhere.
cute dog. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 9:57 AM
i'd pay for a premium.
(with more consistent communication) |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 10:07 AM
$5 a month at $60 a year for Tribe?.. Not so much.. I would have done this 3 years ago before we lost the original Tribe feel and community.
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 10:22 AM
I'd gladly pay 5.00 a month to make tribe more stable. Please don't make it into another facebook. I get totally annoyed whenever I go there. I hate myspace too. Tribe rocks.
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 10:22 AM
Five dollars a month and five each for my two alts? Most definitely! I love tribe and will be willing to pay! Please keep us posted as to what's up.
Thanks for considering this possibility, Mark. I would hate to see tribe go away and this sounds like a great idea! |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 10:22 AM
Thank you for the update. I am a moderator of several tribes and will post a link to this news for them.
I love tribe and want to continue using it. I have no interest in a newsfeed like facebook has. Facebook only appeals to me as a place to chat with the usual suspects when tribe is experiencing major down time. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 10:33 AM
I second everyone's motion..
$5 dollars is a fair price.. I really would like to see more stability here I honestly wish ..you put what was up on the donut page though..so we all know..and will happily have more patience with the process! thanx for all the hard work! |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 10:37 AM
I would pay $5 per month. This networking site is far superior to any I've tried, and I'd like to see it continue.
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 11:01 AM
I'm feeling rather self concsious,
after reading 100% advocacy here...
I have a different take on this whole issue... While I have cherished tribe at different times,it has consistently been a source of GREAT frustration. It has NEVER functioned with anything that could resemble efficiency. I seriously doubt if $5.oo or even $25.oo a month would effectively impact that. For me charging for this service CHANGES THE FUNDAMENTAL NATURE OF IT. It's not the amount,of course that is a negligible sum,it's the concept and principle...It starts at a request for $5.oo,then 20.oo then 40.oo then... I feel like there is an evolution to Tribe and it's existence,and that it either dies a natural death and other sites pick up the pieces OR, someone with REAL resources takes over and completely revamps the infrastructure of this site... It's not that I am a pessimist,it's simply that I have no faith that this new "solution"would effectively do anything but jam a finger in the dike... And I apologize to those on the staff if they feel offended by my opinons. I am quite sure they are overworked and underpaid at this juncture...I mean no personal insult. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 11:02 AM
I don't know. While $5 a month does not sound like much, there are some of us that are struggling to survive financially and truly can't afford that much extra. I would be devastated to lose tribe because I just can't pay that much. I think a sponsorship thing would work better. But that's just my 2cents.
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 11:15 AM
I got 5 bux a month!
DO NOT let Tribe disappear!!! It's too good of a site to go away. And maybe if it cost 5 bucks a month possibly many alt trolls will disappear. Those special people that have 10 alts that serve no purpose but to make drama for everyone might go away FOREVER!!!! Unless of course some people are really into it and are willing to pay 5 bux a month for several different alts. lol I think it would actually help the troll problem to a great extent. Not totally but most definitely it would help alot in that area.
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 11:17 AM
re: the last two posts: I think as long as a membership is not mandatory, not required of all members, it shouldn't be an issue
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 11:19 AM
oops, meant to say "as long as a membership FEE is not mandatory"
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 11:19 AM
first, phew! glad to hear you're not pulling the plug just yet (at least that's what i read between the lines).
one commenter mentioned not having the $5/month. i think this is real for many tribe users. i recommend a free level and a premium upgraded feature level of $5/month. this will help maintain users who are really struggling and generate revenue as well. please don't pull the plug! |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 11:33 AM
There are plenty who could pay $5 a month to balance out those who cannot.
Do it! |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 11:43 AM
Thank you so much for opening this dialogue and giving us the opportunity for input! I love Tribe--there's just nothing like it, and I would hate to see it go away. I agree that $5.00 a month for premium membership with added features is not too much, and I think you'll take in significant money and be on a lot healthier ground. Please continue to keep us informed--and thank you for Tribe!
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:13 PM
"I would be devastated to lose tribe because I just can't pay that much."
That's the funniest thing I've read all day. Maybe we should explain the word "devastated". Come on, give me a break. $5 a flippin' month. That is a phenomenally good deal. So .... how do we start this? Where do i sign up? Where can I send funds? The sooner the better. Thanks Mark. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:19 PM
Pay Per Click ads
If we click on a few ads per day, does this generate cash for tribe?
and if it does... can you tell us the formula for how to do this... As in... if we clicked on 5 'Different' ads from Google... is that 5 separate clicks tribe gets $ for? I know they go by our IP address in pay perclick.. Could you please let us know Thanks for all you do! |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:26 PM
without a doubt. I think the users of tribe can appreciate the value. I'm sure I owe you guys more than 5 a month... ; )
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:28 PM
I think the meaning of 'donation' and 'premium account' implies that free standard accounts will remain, for those who require them.
This seems like a decent solution; using PayPal, I presume? It's good to hear something directly over here. :) I'll keep clicking on ads, though. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:35 PM
I'd be among those where 5 dollars a month might be pushing the boat out.. but I'd still try and keep up, becasue it is truly the only site I go to with only joy, and only the smallest of apprehension.
Largely because of the wonderful crod of people it has attracted. it truly is a unique bunch of worthwhile people! ++++*****As a PREMIUM IDEA though I'd like to suggest a Briefcase function, where finished files/documents/pdfs,docs or xls etc can be stored or displayed. this would allow entrepreneurs to use the site for professional networking, or individuals to store or display info without always having to resort to a copy paste deal..*****+++++ Like others have mentioned: the last thing I really want is (another) news feed! and I'd really not want to pay for that.. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:43 PM
I agree with Paynie (Hi Paynie, Long time)
I would absolutely be willing to pay $5 a month for Tribe to stay online.... perhaps offer it $5 per month OR a year for $50,00, to start with, see how it works out... if ya have more people willing to pay a yearly "subscription" fee, it's a deal and TRIBE has more upfront money to play with... others could opt for the $5. bucks a months thing... if ya can't pay for the month.. no big deal, ya have those that paid for a yearly thing already to cover it... it might work.. at least for awhile longer while people figure out whats workin or not... Ok, I ramble so.... in a nutshell.... Sign me up.. I'll gladly pay for TRIBE to stay online... Bare |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:51 PM
considering that we are far more then a thousand members
I think those who can't effort the fiver will have no trouble anyway it is important to establish who can and will do for a say at least a 3 months period and then a new 1000's could do the other every tribe could organize that and make sure there is a continuity thank you for informing us Marcus ( he he he !!! you got a nickname now ) |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 12:56 PM
$5 per month
I would totally be willing to donate $5.00 per month. :)
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 1:00 PM
Unfortunately...
having members pay to play on tribe is not a "proper" solution to keep the masses happy. "Most" people are not going to be so eager to fork out $60 per year for something that has been "free" for so long. Instead of hiring additional "tech" personnel to burden the company's cash flow, a more appropriate scheme is to hire "salespeople" to generate more revenue from tribe ads. As the cash flow improves, then add more bells and whistles. In other words, create a working budget and stay within your means, and if that suggests slowing the pace down a bit, so be it. By being over indulgent, cash flow problems become imminent. Get a grip on your operating costs and be realistic. You've got a great product. Now all that you need to do is to learn how to sufficiently manage it successfully.
Best of wishes, Aleksonder |
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Unsu...
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 1:13 PM
Thanks Mark.
Please feel free to let me know what Darren needs as far as coffee goes during some of his all nighters. Bruce |
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Unsu...
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 1:16 PM
Also those who are not for paying for usage on this site, it did not look like anywhere in Marks statement that they are considering it to be a requirment at this time.
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 1:21 PM
Aleksonder,
Google ads are not sold by the site owner, they are sold by Google on a pay per click basis. We can all help tribe's cash flow by clicking on the ads, but never more than one click per ad per day, click on other ads instead. This will improve cash flow quickly. Hiring salespeople is worthless, since Google will give tribe an unlimited amount of ads all the time, they just don't make money for tribe if we don't click on them. I am the publisher of top international website, so I understand how this industry works. Other sites like myspace do sell banner ads to place on their site and personally I find them much more annoying than the simple Google ads we see right now. I'm ok with a premium service and recommend a lower cost $29 or $39 a year charge to encourage more people to subscribe. You could even offer ad free viewing to premium subscribers. Aloha, Brian |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 2:12 PM
I'd theoretically pay $5 a month, but frankly I wonder what effect this could really have. Hiring a single engineer a) can't be enough to turn Tribe around and b) seems like it won't generate substantially more revenue. Not to mention that engineers of that sort are hard to come by these days.
I might be alone on this, but what's going to convince me that Tribe has a future is some clue that it has or is creating a healthy revenue model. Geez, I can't believe I just typed that. Depending on Google ads seems like the lazy man's way to make money when a site already has a certain amount of traffic. What do other sites do? Don't they go out and land actual contracts directly with advertisers? I know Tribe is hurting for technical personnel to keep the site up and add features, but at some point, I think, it just needs more money to conjure with. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 3:23 PM
I think the best solution would be to offer a voluntary upgrade to a premium membership, while allowing people to keep free memberships. This means, there would have to be some special perks offered to premium members. I'm not sure what that could be, but I'm sure it would be possible to come up with something that wouldn't cost much to generate, just to make people feel like they are getting something extra.
Many people are saying that $5/month isn't much, and, while this is true, you have to remember some things. First of all, there are more and more social networks coming up all the time, many completely free. Another is that for people living close to the edge financially, who may even be accessing tribe from public computers (I've been there, so I'm talking from personal experience, though I wish I weren't), ANY fee would be prohibitive. So, a voluntary $5/month with one or two "extras" (which could really be mostly symbolic) would be affordable for many people, would provide significant money to Tribe but would still keep it a free service for those who want or need it that way. IMHO, of course :) |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 3:40 PM
I agree completely with Larry - I would be happy to give the $5/mo. but wouldn't want it to be at the expense of the free memberships.
A couple simple "premium" perks or features would be all it took I think. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 3:53 PM
I'd pay the $5.
It seems to me that the problems lie with the hardware and software more than the personnel (or lack thereof). Even if we (you) hire an engineer, it seems like more servers and other doohickeys might be in the future, too. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 4:43 PM
Are you FUCKING kidding me?
The people on the website have transformed my LIFE.
I got your five bucks a month right here, buddy - what forms of payment do you accept? LOVE TO ALL dave |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 5:12 PM
OR we could all just do more clicking on the add's that support Tribe. Why not do that now?
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 5:32 PM
Extra Services
What if the majority of Tribe remained the same with basic services, and those who place ads(SPAM) get to pay for the priviledge . . . or possibly some upgraded or special service?? Just a thought, there many ways to handle this, consult a marketing expert for one.
Anam Cara, Bonnie |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 6:20 PM
I would pay five bucks a month for premium account.
In terms of features, simply adding tagging support to somewhere near what one finds in vBulletin would be really nice. Embedding [IMG] references in posts would be #1 on my wish list. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 6:52 PM
If I may chime in...
I would pay for a premium account, but I would not pay $60/year for it. That is very steep, in my estimation. I WOULD ABSOLUTELY pay somewhere closer to $20-$25/year. And I think more people would pay that, and you would make up the difference between your proposed $60/year in a higher volume of premium subscribers. If you set up a subscription (similar to LiveJournal's premium subscriptions), you would have your money up front for a year from your subscribers. You can even use Paypal to do this, so you don't have to write up a new subscription service program and have people hand over their CC # to you personally. My suggestion would be for free users to have more limited server space allotted (limited photo storage, more limited mail storage, etc), so they can still participate, but will not be as heavy a drain on the servers. Those who pay the premium, and thus pay for the maintenance on the servers, have larger or unlimited storage limits as you have now. I am glad to hear things are chugging along, and I hope a resolution happens soon! I would be brokenhearted, and lost a lot of social and business contact opportunities, were tribe to go the way of the dodo... |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 6:53 PM
Oh and I second some simple html tags and ability for embedded images (even if it were required that the photos be in your tribe photo album in order to embed them)
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 7:43 PM
Thanks for the update, Mark
Yes on $5/mo for premium acct or some such. Giving people options will also help stem the flow to competitor sites (e.g. Facebook) and help retain the people who *want* to be here.
For other/new features, it would be great if possible to be able to incorporate music feeds (a la MySpace). I did see this on some profiles a while ago, but don't see it now (realize that server capacity is limited). Might also want to remind people to clean out email once in a while too (I know I always forget about it!). Thank you for continuing to explore ways to help keep Tribe going ... it is a very special place for me and many of my friends and general community. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:05 PM
thank you for this update!
wow, so many great ideas in this post! i love it! isn't tribe great! |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:10 PM
Mark,
thanks so much for taking time to keep members in the loop. :) I realize that with such a small staff it must be difficult to find the time. Perhaps there is so much stress in dealing with the problems that Tribe is often fearful to discuss these things with members. But I just wanted to say that I think such updates and open communication go a long way to make members feel connected and appreciated. :) While social networking services are generally free, the members do pay with their time and energy. People invest an incredible amount of time setting up profiles and developing relationships, establishing a home at a social networking site. They like to feel their time investment is valued. Communication, even news that isn't necessarily positive, can often satisfy that. Tribe is unique in it's interface and offerings, which I think is mostly what leads to such loyalty and preference in its members. Offering some of the members to contribute financially for a higher tier service seems a smart step. :) But I would also like to add that it seems a short-term solution. If ad revenue alone isn't keeping Tribe afloat that would suggest that Tribe's marketing program needs improvement. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:14 PM
I'd also like to echo Shay's thoughts on payment.
$60/yr is WAY above the standard for a networking site. Most other sites with a premium membership charge at the most 20-$25/yr. For $60/yr I'd expect a clear outline of dramatically different service or benefits. Yes, $5 a month is the cost of a video rental or less than a theater movie, but that still doesn't make it reasonable within the appropriate standard of web networking sites. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:19 PM
Alexsonder said: "Instead of hiring additional "tech" personnel to burden the company's cash flow, a more appropriate scheme is to hire "salespeople" to generate more revenue from tribe ads.'
This is what I was alluding to in my first comment about tribe needing to improve its marketing approach. It seems clear that the process of wooing and obtaining advertisers is not sufficient. Perhaps the approach is wrong, perhaps Tribe is targeting the wrong companies, perhaps the rates or too high or too low. It's impossible to say without knowing any details, but it's clear that something is not working if ad revenue can't reasonably support the site. That's not to say that the current staff's efforts aren't appreciated, nor that additional technical assistance isn't needed. But if Tribe wants to last the long haul, it needs to look at the whole picture. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:37 PM
Mark,
you have serious support. Although many are willing to support at $5 a month even more would be willing to do a more equatable $25 per year. This compares to other online services and seems to be very competitive. Yes I support having a premium option for pay, I feel we still need to have a free option as well. Thank you for what you have done... and can we PLEASE get spell check? seriously I suck at spellng you would like me much better with spell check ;-) and Thank you Brian, Wendy, Darren , Jenni you make my life suck less. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:45 PM
WAHHHH!!!
1st. If anyone can't afford $5/mo. then you can't afford to be online at all. Get off.
2nd. Let the folks who would find themselves in financial ruin, if required to pay $5/mo., keep Tribe as it is (with it's downtimes and feature issues) and for those of us who are willing to pay for this service give us a trouble free site with really cool new features! I write this ^ above ^ "tounge in cheek", BTW. Tribe is "free", keep it that way. A paid membership would have "benefits" that would come with it. Font styles, designer home pages, editing features on postings, etc., etc. and let the freeriders keep what is in place now. Or maybe make some some limitations like the number of images in an album or anything else that takes up "precious technical space" that slows things to a crawl. My $0.02. Thanks for answering, Mark. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:53 PM
I mean come on...If Fark can successfully charge $5/month for "TotalFark" subscriptions....
(off to click on some ads....) |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:56 PM
Absolutly, you can count me in, I will be more than happy to donate my five dollors a month, oh yes I will....
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 9:11 PM
Thank you for the update. I want to help, but I'd like to offer another membership option. I recommend a flat annual fee.
Maybe $25. Or $15 for six months, $25 for a year. And a $5 monthly option for 'short term' memberships. A monthly fee would be a deterrent to a lot of users... many people only participate a few months out of the year (Burningman season). They may be reluctant to join for only a short duration. However, a flat annual fee (that's reasonable) they'd pay to be able to logon without hassle for the time they need it. Or, their participation ebbs and flows... lots one month, then nothing for awhile. A flat annual fee would give them the flexiblity to come and go as they please without the hassle of 'renewing' a subscription or seeing it on their charge card each month and being reminded they are paying for something they might not be using. Too many people will just just wait until Aug |
