Erotic or obscene? What about the photos in these blogs? Dilemma or no problemo?

This is just a sample but still important first post to the Guys into CMNM blog. We are trying to make this blog a GROUP effort, but we need to decide on some basic guidelines and procedures so that we won't run into problem later -- either with Google (owner of Blogger) or Yahoo (owner of Flickr) or worse - among ourselves.

There are photos in the 3 first posts below but where they come from makes a big difference. This first one (the naked kid snuggling the crotch of the leather vested guy on the kitchen chair) is hosted on Flickr and was blogged from my photostream collection there. The next two entries have photos that were uploaded directly into the Blogger editor (where you can create, compose and edit (making corrections, adding links or importing photos from a PC or from someone on the web).

In the case of this first photo, it was not imported to Blogger - but instead it was 'blogged' from Flickr (rather like 'shipping it over from one website to another via RSS). I have made this photo a public Flickr photo. It was uploaded into a new Flickr account from where it was directly blogged - which is a handy utility. Pics and blog text can be written, composed, copied as HTML from other sources or even mailed indirectly into the blog (via Flickr) and in that latter case, there are some filtering/censorship and Yahoo/Blogger TOS (terms of service) issues to consider. I discuss this a bit below because it's relevant to whether we are going to include pictures (that may be questionable) in this blog or not.

Why I made the photos public? Because that' s the only way one can blog it to a 'public' Blogger (owned by Google) blog. If we make the blog for INVITED friends only, then the Flickr photos need not be public, but can be private (viewable) by friends only.

The other photos in the Thorn stories below were uploaded directly from my hard disk - so censorship insures are not a problem - except if Blogger (Google) decides to crack down.

By the way, you can also blog photos and text using email or even a cell phone - which makes moblog or copy/paste blogging much more convenient but also creates a whole set of issues about copyright ownership and restricting access to minor, censorship of pornographic photos.

Using email (via Flickr) to blog pics and text (along with the title (email subject), the text is the body of the email message and can also include tags and permission codes by sending an email a PC, web-based email service (Yahoo or Gmail) or from a cellphone is great. A single file attachments (jpeg) to the email will be displayed in the blog entry (like the one here). More about that later (if you want to know).

To send a post to this blog, Mail some text and with subject (title) to: close49results2blog@photos.flickr.com

(If you include an attached photo (jpeg) file, it will be added to the blog as an illustation to accompany the text (body of the message) with the SUBJECT made into the blog entry title.

The explicit photo problem is a bit tricky. If we make the blog 'private - for Friends only - no one can just casually browse by the blog or be directed to it without actually having to SIGN up (or first must be invited as a Blogger Blog 'friend' ) Please note that these 'Blogger Friends' have NO relation (although they might be connected or one in the same) with those who are 'Friends' ( Contacts who can view private pics) in Flickr.

So...then we are right back to the same problem that we face by trying to 'internally' keep up with CMNM information inside the limits of some else' s (such as Dudenudes, MySpace (and its gay counterparts (Lifeout / Dlist / Gaywatch) or on something like Facebook.


The solutions are several possibilities:

1) just chance it - and if the blog (or the pics where the original --- along with that Flickrid: guysN2cmnm ) gets deleted by Flickr (more than likely) or Google (probably not), then so be it.
or
2) We can just NOT post any explicit photos (such erect penises, or sex acts, etc) - just sensual male nudity.

3) OR We can use altered / doctored photos - only those with blacked out gentitalia or pics that have been chopped or edited - which is a lot of extra work but probably the best compromise.

or
4) Try some other HOST service for what we are trying to do: Create a permanent source of information and place to discuss our sexual lifestyle preferences and practices related to Clothed Men with Naked Men (CMNM).

The Blogger / Flickr connection is nice - while free, it obviously has its share of limitations. So it may not be the best 'solution' - perhaps there are others: Yahoo360 or other blog services (most cost money for such premium services as mobile blogging), Yahoo Groups might work, but the audience is so limited (private groups never get found), etc.


What do you think about this issue? I can already think of several more. For example, if we allow explicit photos, then do we require that they be copyrighted by the poster? It's an endless set of problems.. I can definitely see why being a webmaster can be a very time-consuming, tedious and contentious job.

Is it important - well, sort of... the nature of what kind of blog and information resource we will create (and can expect other to use/join) depends on how useful, accessible and resource-rich the webHOSTing service is that will house it.

Write me back on Dudesnude or at _____99@yahoo.com (underscore is my DN id).

Otherwise, someone who stumbles across this and wishes to participate, should contact me via another of my own blogs:
Thanks,

Kelly

How does 'flashing' count as CMNM activity?

One aspect of the CMNM lifestyle (sexual preference) is just how and where such kinds of experiences actually occur.

There are three broad categories for how and where CMNM occurs --
1) planned situations where both parties involved, the clothed man (males) and naked ones are participating willingly and in predetermined locations (such as a bar, Pride event, male strip club, male lap-dancing, or private group sex parties. Some examples are nude nights at some gay bars, or stripping contests, or amateur strip nights, or hiring a nude escort or sex 'massage' escort (not to be confused with a real licensed masseur or massage therapist). Some are these 'planned' CMNM events are a part of a larger men's gathering or nude or sexual retreat - CMEN, Burning Man, or Street Festival (Southern Decadance in New Orleans or Dore Alley Fair in Cisco).

2) pre-meditated, semi-random or semi-accidental one-way CMNM (this is a very gray area - so it's not clearly definable)..

In these only ONE of the two manipulates (or at least it appears that one side is cognizant and the other side is ignorant (or innocent) of 'planning' or 'willingly' participant in sexually stimulating their counterpart. So the exact environment or conditions are very important but also very unique and specific to the situation (like good timing in while visiting your Uncle's home, etc) so that one male can either be nude or be the clothed one who enjoys seeing the nude male in a place where nudity may or may not be expected. One essential determining factor is whether power/control and whether the sexual arousal is experienced by both (Clothed or Nude) particitpants and more definitely whether or not it is a voluntary act or coerced or forced on the other party (by force, persuasion or manipulation that physical or psychological or social or even some combinations of all three.


3) accidental or unintended CMNM experiences (like when someone opens a toilet stall door and exposes a naked (or masturbating/erect guy), or getting locked out (pushed out) of a hotel room by college buddies, etc... ).

There are all kinds of variables that come into play and thehuge extremes in the level of conscious and unconscious sexual turns-on with all of these variations. the subtleties or the directness (blatantness) are different for every purpose and every person.

Certainly, one aspect of CMNM involves flashing. Flashing is a form of exhibitionism - from mild to wild to extreme - exposing one's body, specifically the genitals and/or buttocks (or breasts in women) to another person or group of people (who may or may not be clothed). Mild forms of it are 'accidental exposure' or peekaboo flashing -which are so very common among some social groups and situations -- so much so that it is absolutely NOTeven regarded as any form of 'sexual' behavior at all - especially in some circles or subcultures.

Peekaboo flashing often takes the form of nudity at college boy dorm and social events or frat parties, nudity at sporting events, rock concerts and public events where young and often drunk people gather to 'have fun'. But it also exists on a more personalized basis .. such as between college dorm roommates or when regular handymen or deliverymen come to a person's house (sometimes repeatedly) and some accidental exposure to (male) nudity occurs.

There are legions of stories -- many probably urban legend -- about the voyeuristic adventures of pizza delivery boys, UPS truck drivers, and newspaper delivery boys - some of which they have documented (in blogs, Youtube, porno, etc) but more they themselves often are actually the targeted brunt of someelse's desire getting naked-for-the-pizza-guy prank. I have a strong feeling that many times such 'jokes' actually have latent homoerotic desires or subcurrents underlying the 'urge' to strip or to have someone stripped. Why then would getting the guys naked or panstied or teabagged be the NUMBER ONE hazing or college party pranks for seemingly millions of boyish breeder-types (twinks and young college or NON-college men up to age 30 or so).

Spend some time searching YouTube or similar sites (or more blatantly risque or explicit video-sharing sites) to get a better idea of what I am talking about.


The following is a written interaction about how to flash a plumber. It was originally posted on DickFlash (a publically accessible discussion forum) on January 14, 2008. Within it, you can find some of the basic issues and nuances of what CMNM experiences are all about.

One of the discussion participants on DickFlash posted this message and request on January 14:




"This guy came about two weeks ago to work on my sink in my kitchen. He had the plumber's crack thing going on, but in a good way...he has a nice ass. I know he's married with kids, but he was very talkative and friendly. I want to know how to "accidentally" flash him. I'm not sure the "I have to take a shower..." thing is going to work. I need something more subtle. The thing is, short shorts aren't really in fashion these days, or
I would slip a pair on and let my balls "accidentally" fall out or spread my legs open, etc. Any suggestions?"


MY RESPONSE:

I'm good at coming up with possible ways to flash but I don't often really put them into practice.... so take what I say with a huge grain of salt. By way of further 'excuse-making', let me explain -- I don't live alone (4 people together) and so can't arrange 'things' so easily for workmen or delivery men flashes. But here are some suggestions... and some advice.


1. The baggy shorts (not just shorty shorts ) or mesh shorts might be one option - You can wear them or sit so that he can look up them (or see through them) and carry on your 'friendly' banter. If you just act like you don't know any about what he's seeing it would probably work.. but if you are like me.. it's the being seen that is the arousing part. If you have to completely IGNORE his act of seeing, it is ....well.. not like flashing at all. But it might work differently for you. Anyway, just think about it especically from his 'point-of-view' (so to speak), do you think he is going to engage you in a long, friendly conversation while you are 'blatantly' sitting there with your balls or cock or asshole in full view (or partial view). Most married men (unless they are closet gay voyeurs) will politely turn their eyes or simply back off or turn around .. even if they make a joking comment about it or are not embarrassed by it.. it will make them slightly uncomfortable. Then he'll be more wary or even resentful...for having been 'friendly' was NOT his intention - he's probably NOT just chatting you up .. but he's passing the time amiably because it's not a very fun job -- except for those times he gets to actually talk to his customers.

If he is THAT comfortable with seeing a nude male and chatting, then you could probably try something much more direct. You've met him before so to start out with something 'new' at this point may not work either, but at least you'll have some ideas for the 'next' time (another handyman or deliveryman).

For example, explain that you are a nudist (or you can use some wording or terminology to disguise this and then 'explain' what that means... such as a naturologist or FKK scientologist (hey.. like a nude Tom Cruise fan club member) or that you are practicing nude yoga or nake self-massage, essential oil therapy or some such ruse... as a spiritual discipline and this is your morning (afternoon) to engage in your regular session.

If he doesn't baulk, then ask him if you can be nude in front of him now because you always make it a practice in at the time and you need to meditate in the nude. He'll probably believe you unless he's also Asian - the typical WASP North American doesn't know anything about any religion or religious discipline other than their own (rather narrow) Protestant or Catholic dogma (and many barely even know much about those - although they pretend to be 'Christians'. For white Americans (of a certain age) it would be so non-PC (i. e. politically incorrect) to doubt you or to call your 'nude' religious practice into question because to appear to ridicule it or doubt would be tantamount to prejudice or discrimination - most people will not say anything. In fact, if he's really 'interested', he just might show so much interest and encourage you to take off you clothes or ask you to explain it or show him how you do it... then you'll have to be able to bull-shit your way through an actual sample session.

What is important is that you need to believe in what you are doing. You have to really have a plan and a clear purpose in your strategy. Actually believing in something helps you actually come up with some ideas (on your own) that will work FOR YOU (to actualize it)..... When you don't believe in something you want to do (and why you want to do), it becomes all too self-evident to others and to yourself that what you are doing is just a ruse or fake.

People are masters as self-delusion - but they can smell out fear or a fake a mile off (not that they always mind or even complain). We (here on DF) can make suggestions that are excellent or extensive (or until we are blue in the face)...but YOU are the one who actually has to make them work or not.

It helps enormously if you really believe it too. Think also about why you want to flash this guy... is it the naughtiness that stimulates you? or the sense of having sexual power over someone (esp a stranger? or do you think you might have a chance to get laid or have sex or are you looking for a romantic/sexual fling?

Flasher, know thyself.

2. The 'shower' thing is about the only plausible other reason (rationale) that you could have for 'accidently' exposure 'beside the flimsy clothes or the nude meditation.. I know you love showing your butthole, Rimluvr -- we've seen that sweet and delicous little bronzed pucker here on DF more than one ocassion.

Scenario A.... Leave your cellphone in the kitchen or bathroom or whever he is going to be doing his plumbing stuff.. and be sure to have set the alarm on your phone to make it ring while he is in there. You could set multiple alarms to 'simulate' getting a call first from some and talking just minute to tell them you are getting in the shower, and and then have a second alarm set 10 minutes later - perfectly timed so that you have to come bounding out of the shower or whenver you are -- practicing nude yoga, etc in the room. You may need to leave the phone where he can' t see/reach it.... among your dirty clothes or in a pile of fresh laundered stuff... etc.


When you then come running into the room (or even jump out of the shower or laundry room or where) so try to 'get that important call'... either you'll be nude (and dripping) or clutching a towel.. or you will 'loose' the towel then your 'clumsy' hands try to get the phone open and up... He won't be able to ignore a phone ringing (if you've got the right phone it will sound just like a real ringtone and will continue to ring 4-5 times -- just begging to get his attention too ..

Therefore, he'll have backed out from under the sink or wherever just in time to see your towel drop and your exposed jewels or rose-bud come into full view... it would be even best if you have the phone strategically placed to that he can't avoid staring up into your crotch or buttocks.

You could also pull of that phone trick by using your cell phone to call your landline (extension in the kitchen or getting some to do so).. No.. I'm not volunteeing. But you could even get your mother or a friend to call you at exactly a certain time (say.. to wake you up or to help mind you to bring in the recycling bin (or whatever).

3. Combine all or some of the above suggestions... Answer the door in mesh clothes, explain about your 'nude yoga' or naked scientology mediation session, then have the phone (alarm) set to interrupt you. You have to sound convincing so you have believe it. It's easier to believe when it is not a lie - so start practicing Buddhist nude oil massage and Naked Zen meditation today. Hope you enjoy my suggestions and advice... Kelly (sunbuns) - I have lived too many years in Asia and now I spend so much time in Hawaii -- where East and West mix so well ... so I guess I have been indoctrinated - one way or another.

_________The spirit is willing but the flash is week day and weekend!

Submitted by sunbuns (as hardtwoholed)

Male-Male Flashing with A Buddy: Combining CMNM with Flashing

An original story (whether it is a true personal experience only the author can say) by Thorn. Posted on Yahoo Groups: thorngay@yahoogroups.com on January 10, 2008.

I didn't know Eric that well. He was the brother of two girls that I knew and I would meet him occasionally with them. He was about 18 years old at the time, quite sexy in a boy-next-door way. On this particular occasion there was a big group of us and Eric and I were sat together at one end. We started talking about cars. We talked about cars we lusted after. Cars we owned and cars that we had driven.

It was then that the conversation took an interesting turn. Eric explained that he had been driving on the main road south when his car had broken down. He had had a puncture and had to stop to change it. In the process he explained his trousers had split completely.

At this point I noticed he was glancing at me as if testing my reaction. I found it difficult not to look too eager! The vision of Eric with his underwear, or more, showing through split trousers was quite exciting. It appeared Eric was enjoying telling me the story.

There was more. Eric went on to explain how he took off the torn trousers and replaced them with another pair from his overnight bag adding, as if I had forgotten: "I was standing right beside the main road in a pair of briefs".

Again he was watching my face intently as though looking for clues to my interest. "Did anyone see you?" I asked. "Yeah," Eric laughed, "a couple of cars hooted their horns - one was a minibus full of lads going to a football match!"

"Sounds like you enjoyed it," I replied. "Yea, I did," Eric replied. Having established that he liked the thought, I said "sounds good to me".

There wasn't much more that I felt I could say when we were sat in the group and it would become obvious that we were getting interested in each other. "Come and see my computer," I said standing up and heading out of the room. Eric followed. "I think the most daring thing I did with a car, was to drive round the block wearing nothing but a T-shirt," I said as soon as we were out of earshot. "Wow," said Eric, adding, "I wish I had been there!" "Yeah, that would be fun," I said. "Dare you," Eric said. I looked at him to see if he was serious. He was. "OK, you're on. But you have to do it too," I replied. "OK," said Eric. "Can't be tonight with these people here," I pointed out. Eric agreed. "Tomorrow," Eric said. "OK," I replied with my cock jumping to attention at the thought.

We went into my room and sat down at the computer. "What other daring things have you done?" said Eric. I pointed to the window of my room which looked out on the street. "I ometimes stand there naked," I said. Eric went over to the window and looked out on the treet. To my amazement, he unbuckled and unzipped his jeans letting them fall to the ground. Leaving them round his ankles he pulled his briefs down.

His dick was superb. Slightly hard, but smooth and with a sweet foreskin. Under that I reckoned the tip looked slightly moist. Eric was getting harder and peering along the street. I stood up and walked over. I looked from behind Eric and saw why he was getting excited. Along the street were coming two really cute lads about our age in football shorts.

Eric was stroking his dick now and I stood behind him making as if to hold him in the window so he couldn't chicken out. The guys were getting closer and closer. When they were almost right outside, Eric started to back away from the window so he wouldn't be too obvious, but he continued stroking his now hard dick.

The first guy glanced at the window and his eyes locked on to Eric who was still stroking. He nudged the other guy who turned round and both stared. At that point Eric exploded with a shudder. The two guys looked approving and one gave the thumbs up, before walking on.

Eric was breathing heavily. "Wow!", I said, that was amazing that got me really horny. "Your turn," said Eric. I looked along the street and there was another guy walking along the street. I dropped my jeans and briefs and started stroking.

Suddenly I became aware that Eric was snuggling up behind me and his hand was now reaching round and stroking my cock, which was now rock solid. The guy was really cute with longish blond hair a white T-shirt and white shorts. I stayed at the window as long as I dared, then backed away as Eric had.

Again the guy glanced round and locked a stare on the window when he saw me with Eric massaging my now rigid tool. His jaw dropped as he stared and stared, slowing his walk right down to get a good look. It was too much for me, too, and i came. They guy in the street gave a half smile and a sheepish thumbs up and walked on. We cleaned up and returned to the group, having arranged to meet up as planned the next night for our dare.

CMNM experiences last summer and looking forward to more over Xmas

I had some great CMNM experiences during a month of vacation travel in August. [NOTE: I posted this previous on the CMNM Tribe, but since it's private, only a few people will actually read it, so I'm re-posting on this blog. ]

These Clothed-Male-Naked-Male expereinces aren't ones that would have much graphic or explicit content or anything like that... but they were certainly meaningful because I was able to make some great connections with people. For me, it's not enough just to be naked in front of strangers - that's easy enough to accomplish at a nudist beach, locker room, or clothing optional resort, etc. I find it increasingly important to me if I can develop some kind of interaction - social - not even sexual with the guys I am nude with.

I realize that this probably says a lot about the nature of my own reasons or motivation for seeking out CMNM situations. I should eventually delve into that - I suppose. For me it not simply whether or not the guy is showing any interest in seeing my nude body or me in his. It's much more satisfying when the clothed person and I (or if I'm clothed and he's nude) are engaging in either doing something together or conversing about mutal interests while one of us is nude.

Just a quick glimpse at my summer episodes... (as must for my own recall ):
a) I stayed several weeks on the Big Island (Hawaii) so I had a chance to camp, go to a clothing optional resort, and get nude on a couple of beaches
b) I stayed at a hostel (same one as before) and had a wonderful time getting to know my bunkmates and people from adjoining rooms.
There were quite a few opportunities to be naked or be clothed with naked during that 5-day stay. One of the most fun things was 6 of us going skinnydipping at Waikiki Beach after midnight (2 women and one guy remained clothed, 3 guys got naked). I had spent the whole time just dying to see those other two hunks in the nude so it was really cool being accepted in the camaraderie of guys being guys and getting to skinnydip with them in the end.
c) I meet up the next week with oneof the guys who stayed in that same hostel dorm room (he didn't go skinnydipping) but his bunk was just across from mine (both on the top) so I had an uninterrupted view of him sleeping and also he had the same of me - I sleep nude every night of course. I loved watching him put his hand down his pants and play with or 'straighten' his cock (supposedly while asleep). I made sure he got a chance to see me with a woody too several times a night (and at sunrise) - although he never acknowledged noticing.
Because we were both returning (from Honolulu) back to the the Big Island, we ended up going together to the Puna area of the Big Island the following week- so I introduced to the delights of the 'naked Aloha' life.
It was his first trip to a nude beach and at first he was reluctant - although he's the one who suggested going - but finally he got up the courage to shed all his clothes and even allowed me to take some photos. Later we camped out a Kalani so he got another chance to be naked on the clothing optional pool that evening. Of course, I slept naked next to him in the 2-man tent and I hardly got any sleep at all.
The previous day we went to the natural steam vents (like an outdoor sauna made from lava-heated steam) and we got naked. A guy there was 'pretending 'to sleep and sporting a big hard on so that gave me and Koji a chance to talk later about dicks and erections when the other guy got up and left. I got several pics (and he of me) of our short few days together.
d) I stayed in Manhattan at the West Side Y and had quite a few chances to be naked with strangers. Guests can use the pool, gym and lockerrooms just like paid members. On my return trip thru NYC, I stayed at another hostel and also scouted out a few more where I might return on my next trip. I also spent several evenings at the West Side Club.
e) Some nudity at a couple public beaches lead to some sexual encounters -- I met a really nice Russian guy whom I mistook for straight until he keep coming up and trying to get peeks some parts of my anatomy. Eventually, I got more than just a peek at his.

In December (2007), I'll travelling again around the Big Island, Oahu, San Diego/LA, and the Nashville area.
I'm already planning to go on the Angle's Catamaran Cruise again (later will try out the Hula's Cruise). I'll be sure to invite more people toj join me being nude on the cruise - but won't hesitate 'going it alone.' I'm also going to be staying at the hostel again - although my stay will be a bit short so making friends who'll have time to do things together might be harder. But I plan to return to the same hostel in February and will be going to New York again in March.

Virtual Flashing - what's the difference?

Anyone who's a member of Flickr or MySpace (and the alternatives) probably knows that there seem to be thousands of people who 'flash' their nude bodies and genitalia for strangers whom they have designated as 'friends'. In some case, they just make their nude and/or explicit photos open to the public (Flickr usually catches up with them and deletes their accounts). The same is true for video-sharing websites which seem to be proliferating so fast I can't keep up with them all (e.g. Xtube, etc)....
I'm not complaining -- I do the same thing myself.

See related article at: www.webpronews.com/blogtalk...than-porn

Before some religious-right morality freak goes on an anti-flashing terrorist rampage and condemns real-live dickflashing, they should just take a look at all the 'flashing' happening virtually.

We don't categorize them as exhibitionists just because they are putting up nude photos of themselves but what's the differences if they are putting them up just SO they can be viewed (via the Internet) instead of live. The other day I was commenting on a Flickr contact's pics coincidentally while he was uploading them. He wrote back.. "please write more comments because it gives me a big hard-on knowing that people are viewing my pics. " Of course, I did -- but is that what we've all come to - vicarious 'flashing'. I guess he should set up webcam.. the feedback would be a lot quicker.

All of this guy's pic are nude photos. Here is doing some irtual flashing by posing as a real flasher:

BEWARE: This link contains EXPLICIT male nudity:
Link to a Virtual Flashing pic: farm2.static.flickr.com/1250/5...f_m.jpg

and all are open to the public. He's a Flickr contact - but perhaps he got other reasons that just showing himself - I think he's selling himself (not for sex) but as a future partner.


I realize defining what it really flashing and what is 'virtual flashing' is probably a matter of intent and also has something to do with the will of the audience/ viewer. A 'real' flasher (true exhibitionist fetish) seems to need to be seen by people (whether or not they want to see him). The most extreme fetishist needs to be "seen" doing sexual things (being naked or jerking) in order to get off. Just posting yourself in nude pics or even showing yourself aroused or engaged in masturbation or sexual intercourse in photographs might be exhibitionistic but it doesn't make them (us) a true flasher ... I suppose. Maybe I'm just self-talking (this post or my blog) to try to justify or rationale by own use of virtual flashing.

I guess I'm trying to say that there seem to be a lot of people with exhibitionist tendencies -- so many that I find that my own form of peekaboo flashing and 'accidental' exhibitionism (wearing skimpy or revealing clothes, or going to nudist beaches, being naked in hostels with clothed roommates, etc ) to be not that extreme.

Sexual preferences, fantasies and fetishes are unique and sometimes strangely so. But societies love-hate relationship with sexuality and sexual behavior - especially male-male sex -- is even weirder.

What's your take on it?
_________________
The spirit is willing but the flash is week day and weekend!

The fundoshi - traditional Japanese male undergarment

I am not really into fundoshi (wearing them myself-- freeballer here), but I certainly enjoy seeing other men wear them. It's the traditional garment (actually undergarment) worn by most Edo era men under their kimono/yukata (before arrival of Perry's blackships circa 1857). For nearly a century, it was still used as underwear and the bathing suit for men, but it's popularity as an everyday article of clothing declined after the American Occupation introduced Western-style underwear for men. It's now become garment of choice for many 'masturi' - Japanese traditional festivals - many of which celebrate the coming of age of young men and involve some type of virility or fertility ritual or ceremonial tasks. A variation of it, the 'mawashi' is still worn today by sumo wrestlers.
In 'matsuri', groups of men (old and young) don the fundoshi (with or without happi coat) and parade the streets and shrine grounds carrying the heavy wooden floats (actually portable shrines, 'mikoshi'), heaving it up and forward with their loud chants and boisterous energy. Quite often when ONLY the fundoshi is worn - with nothing else - the fesitval is frequently referred to as a 'hadaka matsuri' or naked festival.
farm1.static.flickr.com/219/50...e_o.jpg farm1.static.flickr.com/190/50...0_m.jpg
It's true that some department stores in Japan got the idea to 'rename' the fundoshi and market it as 'samurai pants' or something like that, but it's still rather a special item that most men wouldn't own. For example, how popular is the thong for underwear or a bathing suit? Still there are a few men who wear kimono on a daily basis (instead of Western suits/pants) so I'm sure that you can find fundoshi at department stores and speciality stores. Even if not don one publically, some men might like the masculine image of the fundoshi and may be wearing them under their western attire - sort of like men who like to wear a jockstrap instead of boxers or briefs. A lot of men at the age of 20 (for both men and women) celebrate Coming of Age Day (1st Monday in January) and some of them wear traditional kimono (and may be wearing a fundoshi underneath (although I have my doubts). Summer festivals and firework display bring out hordes of people, particularly young men and women, in the traditional lighter cotton print 'yukata' (cheaper version of the often outrageously
expensive kimono). I bet a few men wear a fundoshi (or like I do - nothing) underneath.

Some of my Net pics on Japanese male bonding,
including many with men in fundoshi:

[url]www.flickr.com/photos/sun...8448/[/url]


Mr. Wada is photographer who specializes in Japanese
festivals and seems to capture men in fundoshi at
literally hundreds of festivals.

wadaphoto.jp/maturi/

An online store's ad for fundoshi:

www.wasuiya.com/english/index.htm

A blog by Japanese guy interested in naked and
semi-naked men:
blog.livedoor.jp/fundoshi/...89179.html
(He has several categories, included the one for
matsuri and fundoshi above)

YouTube vid on how to put on (tie) a fundoshi:
(in Japanese - for modesty's sake, the model is
already wearing a fundoshi as the instructor
demonstrates how to put on (over the exisiting one).

www.youtube.com/watch

So you can imagine what it's like being where a lot of men are getting dressed in fundoshi. He explains in Japanese that most people can't get a fundoshi tied by themselves (you need a third or fourth arm). So you can see why I think male bonding is one of the functions of Japanese festivals - you have to get naked and up closer and personal with another guy and then groups of men in order to wear a fundoshi and participate.
Well, I was wrong about one thing - YOU can put on a fundoshi by yourself. The same instructor completes his training of the younger fundoshi wearer - and put him to the test. A follow-up section of the earlier video (see my last posting for the URL).
This time he starts out without anything on underneath.

www.youtube.com/watch

Experiencing a Tribe in Real Life - - life in a hostel (sic) environment

I love hostel experiences. I've posted on this topic before but there's not very much reaction - although my take on hostelling (and the pleasure it affords) has changed recently.
In some ways, being on Tribe.net is a lot like living in a hostel with a set of unique and slightly strange (if not almost perverted) bunk of quirky people. In real life, there aren't that many places - in the modern and average working-man world -- that you can really let your hair down and let your personality and anatomy all hang out (LOL - in a manner of speaking). Burning Man, or Mardi Gras or r

Off-time for second, saunas (gay sex clubs/baths) are not totally banned in NYC - unless you don't count East Side Club or the West Side Club. I visited the West Side Club two nights and found it OK enough to go back for more. They charged an initial membership fee ($15?) but you get a 30-day member's card, which allows for 5 visits (just pay for a room (or locker). I recommend a room and it's customary to give a tip to the staffer who leads you to your room. There were a variety of men but there was virutally no sex in the corridors or open areas - it was confined to the private rooms with the doors closed -- which was somewhat disappointing.

At West Side Club, the is only one small shower room, and the sauna was not working (or appeared to be closed) - which may be connected to fact that the sauna room was also closed at the West Side YMCA, where I stayed two nights. At the Y, a sign was posted saying that it was closed by order of the City Board of Health. Was it just this one that had not passed inspection or is the NYC Board of Health systematically shutting down all public saunas? Sort of like - cleaning otu the porn and prostitutes out of Times Square? Go figure.

I have love staying at hostels - not just for the economy, and also not just because I have an 'excuse' to be naked in front to strangers (which is always fun), but I have found now that they are enjoyable even more for the chance for camaraderie and acceptance from new acquaintances and potential friends. Initially, I saw it as a way to flash people whose reactions you could see and who can't quite run away. But now, I find that being accepted for being myself is working like a kind of therapy and giving me less reason/compulsion to 'flash' or get naked in front of strangers (not that I ever really did it blantantly anyway - but the fantasy and compulsivity had been growing for the last few years whether I actually acted on it or not).

Recently, I have found that I really enjoy getting to know the people I am 'living' with in the hostel. I guess it comes from my not acting anything but myself -- I feel free to be me - kinky, profane, but passionate, caring, and adventurous too. I seemed to be (socially) rewarded for the very things that might be 'pervs' in someone else's book.
So I've started to see hostels in a whole new light. Still, there are not all like that. I guess it depends on how long you stay - and whether your roomies are ready and willing to socialize. It also matters whether they are willing to accept your 'uniquess' (diversity - differences in sexual persuasions - i.e. being gay or a nudist or an exhibitionist.)

Maybe it has everything to do with the location (what hostel, in what city/country, and what the social context is). It was a mixed room for 8 with of them 2 women (who were not together) in Honolulu. We did things together - like going out to clubs, dancing, taking in local sites (North Shore Sunset Beach), swimming and even skinnydipping late on night. Using the same bathroom, shower, watching each other change in the room and at the beach was a kind of therapy -- in one sense. My nudity in the room was either overlooked or just accepted - as was everyone esle's. I found I didn't really feel the need to be the perv who made other leary or uncomfortable (with this group). I did get naked and erect for the 'benefit' of my opposite bunkmate, but he either didn't care or really didn't notice. Because later, we ended up spending a couple of days together (on another island).

I guess too that my personality sort of balanced the one overly macho str8 guy who also seemed to like getting nude, too - although seemed possessed with chasing skirt 24/7. In that setting, he was more like the 'pervert', a ex-crazed, testosterone-drenched horny dog. So I didnt' need or couldn't take that role. He's been travelling for a year and had had some bad experiences so I guess he was 'acting' out like some kind of kid (which he was at 23). He's lost his travel partner and best friend - who had gotten hooked on drugs while in the Caribbean and had had to be shipped home for hospitalization to the Netherlands).
There was some secret intrigue (not me) with some gay hankpanky going on between one of our roomies and a guy next door which complicated things. Why they tried so desperately to cover it up (without much success) was beyond me. Overall, it was a very nice time.
A few weeks later, I spent a night in a hostel in NYC (Gershwin Hotel has both private and dorm-style rooms). Life was back to normal -meaning -- I didn't even speak to my roomies (two other young men) except in the dark when I came in after 11pm. There was just one roommate in the room and he appeared asleep. I stripped in the darkened room and took a shower, leaving the door unlocked (on purpose). The second roommate came in and opened the door to the bathroom catching me fully nude. When I came out and finished dressing, he was in bed, pretending not to notice. I had to leave early the next morning but gave him a lot to look at that night since we were the ones on the two bottom bunks.
While in NYC, I looked up some other possible hostels. I believe that WestSide Inn (107st) was promising. Are there others anyone can recommend?

The Great 'Gay' Outdoors - Who else is into ONR?

The Great 'Gay' Outdoors - Who else is into ONR?
by sunbuns99July 14th, 2007, 05:24 PM POSTED also on my Travels with Sunbuns blog
sunbuns.blogspot.com

A blog entry generated by a recent post by a member of DudesNude on the topic of OUTDOOR NAKED RECREATION (ONR) and trekking expeditions and gay men's hiking/camping.

QUOTED form DN:
I am used to [going] backpacking and really enjoy hiking and camping too. Making a great fire and sleep under stars with the sound of the river is the kind of FUN I like but it's not a popular gay way of life. Guys like this kind
of Brokeback Mountain trip only like a quick fantasy. To be able to carry a 20 kilos bag, to walk 8 hours a day, to forget comfort, eat dry noodles and soups, sweat and climb mountains --- to go to some stunning places, meet
amazing people in far countryside [is wonderful but few gay men seem to do this]… I met some straight boys during my last travels who like that but am I the only gay hiker on the planet ? WHO'S REALLY IS ABLE TO DO THAT ? Am I alone ?
Posted originally (with editing) by [sunshiniin]
-----------END QUOTE-------------------------------------------

Hiking, camping, and all kinds of outdoor recreation (especially nude) make up my favorite kind of vacation (and leisure time), but finding people (gay men) who do these at the same level, intensity and frequency that you (or I do) is usually a localized process. Not everybody has the same amount of time, stamina, self-discpline, etc or even the same purpose for doing these kinds of activities: physical exercise, self-growth, meditation, socializing, naturalist (ecology), photography, camaraderie, sexual behavior like courting a partner or just getting sex, spiritual communing with nature and other people... the reasons are nearly endless - although I find it perfectly great and by no means at cross-purposes to do ONR (Outdoor Nature (or Naked / Nude - if you're like me) Recreation) for ALL of the above reasons - but some people don't see it that way.

There are many groups for ONR all over the world but they are local - localized to the cultural context and also localized (by language and by who's committed to them or who's leading them and how they accept of seek out new members). Check out the area where you'll be going (or where you live) to try to find them. For example, there is a fairly large (and evidently growing) set of different hiking (many times nude hiking) in the Palm Springs area. Oahu (Hawaii) has the LikeHike group, and the list goes on. Often the nudist groups (FKK, gay men's groups, etc) can give you leads or help you find people and organized events in the local areas.

It takes some research (on the Net or by asking here on DN or other sites, such a gayoutdoors.com) to find groups (or individuals) but there are 'outdoor' recreation (hiking, climbing, etc) group of people and also gay recreation groups almost everywhere that anybody does these activities. I'd be interested in helping to organize such ONR events or outdoors excursions, but again the arrangements have to be 'located' somewhere.. and we here on DN -- as is true for most any gay ( homophilic) web site come from all over the world. Still... it's nice to share the experiences about trying to find others who take outdoor recreation (with other like-minded men) as something both fun and seriously worthwhile and beneficial.

Your best bet is to find partners and trips is to look at Gayoutdoors.com and see what kind of events/hiking expeditions are being organized. It's mainly oriented to North America but not only. Another idea would get Phil (the Dudesnude webmaster) to add new categories to the search and profiles. And he might also add a new forum categories for Recreation and Sports. (including Nudism and Outdoor Recreation). It might have the added merit of getting more paying contributors. You can search for existing ones or even start your own at other well-known and well-developed sites gay social networking sites. I find I spend more time on Flickr or Tribe.net or Justusboys.com because their audiences are larger (potentially) and the efforts at communicating are not lost in a random pile of unrelated thread (like this message will be). MySpace, Gaywatch, Dlist and other sites just don't seem to engender good group communication for 'rounding' up men who share a passion for outdoor recreation (hiking, camping, climbing, snorkeling/diving, etc).

CruZn 4 Tsechs: Wanted: Tearoom Buzz

Shifting Era for homophilic men or not?

I've had some really exciting sex-periences in public toilets at stations, airports (infrequent), dept. stores, campuses, and in park restrooms, pool/gym lockerrooms, and roadside rest areas - too many to describe now.My first blowjob (as giver and taker) was in my university library at age 19 with a total stranger of whom I never saw more than his cock. So it's been a part of my (sporadic) sexual habits ever since.


There seem to be far less 'cruisy' public spaces than before 9/11. Obviously, the HIV outbreak and aftermath before that drastically (for a time and is probably continuing still to some degree) reduced public cruising some. I think the anti-terrorism security measures have increased patrols, video surveillance cameras, and even closed some 'cruisy' spots.


What do you think? At the same time, I get a sense that the str8 populace all over (UK and US for example) is getting into 'dogging' and public exhibitionism and public sex more and more. Or at least, there are more ways to it to become known - maybe it was always there to an even greater extent than what homophiles were doing. I never knew so many women were involved in gloryhole sex until recently - chasing down cocks in some venues formerly (traditionally - WTF! - It's funny saying that) reserved for gay / curious men's anonymous sex. This is not only true in the US but I've found stepped up security monitoring of these kinds of - what we used to call 'tearooms' to be increased (or increasing) everywhere.


For example, Tokyo used to have some pretty heavy cruising at the toilets in one very large train/subway station and it still exists, of course. These places are now monitored by roving security patrols (although I 'm not sure if vidcams are installed yet) and underground 'koban' - police boxes nearby. It seems to have cut down on the cruising -- although never completely (he he!)

Nudity in the Family: Part 1 How does it affect male sons?

It may be that those who don't have children (of either sex) might possibly 'project' what might be their own doubts (or fears or sexual inclinations) when they consider how gay or bisexual fathers could be perfectly comfortable being naked with their children (especially sons), or even want to make sure that they DO get the opportunity to learn / experience being comfortable naked with their dads and other men.
I don't ever recall having the slightest urge to 'know' my own sons bibically and never gave the first thought to being sexually attracted to them. I'd be less than honest to say that this was not always true about some of their high school friends and soccer teammates. However, I never ever acted on these thoughts - although I wouldn't morally condemn some man who did - that's not what the issue or the original question on this thread is about.

I'm not rejecting the possibility that some fathers could have more than an affectionate or fatherly interest in their sons, but I'd bet that most do not.

In my own case, there was no willful desire, ulterior motive or sinistre plan to let the boys see me (and my wife) naked. It was just a natural family thing. We did not raise them in Judeo-Christian religion-influenced America so that probably had a lot to do with reasons why it just seemed natural. We bathed together, went to public baths and hot springs resorts, and a few sometime visited nude beaches (or clothing-optional spots, in other countries - such as Greece and Munich's Englischergarten). Conversations sometimes included references to what they saw or were experiencing and there were the inevitable questions. But it was appropriate and in context - so it was a good way and good time to answer their questions: about sex or sexual attraction or feelings and behavior.

I think my sons today have a healthy respect for the human body and an amazing tolerance for diversity - including my own bisexuality, which evidently was even clear to them long before we actually told them. I can't say that it's all attributable to our being nude together as a family but I think it was a contributing factor or at least just one in a long series of ways of thinking and ways of treating people and being nude that helped them to be open and honest about sexual issues, and not be morally uptight or self-righteous about gender, nudity and human sexual behavior. They are both heterosexual and over 21-year-old male adults. I am talking about our being nude when they were infants, young boys and into the teenage years. We don't have as much occasion to get naked together these days.

I was TRYING to support the idea that being nude with your sons (or any kids) can be (even should be) something that's very natural and not a cause for alarm. (like some of the hyper-moralistic gay men are suggesting).
BUT .. it does depend on the situation (where you take them and what you 'show' them both physically and your own mental messages to the boys. And it also depends a lot on the boys' (children) own self-understanding and self-acceptance.
Hey, I'm not perfect. The 'idea' of a father and son being sexually involved is a secret fantasy. I enjoy reading Handjobs

www.hjmag.com/handjobs/

But it IS just fantasy material - I find I am not attracted at all to my own offspring. However, the thought has crossed my mind often enough about other fathers and their sons.
BTW, did you ever get any private messages about the topic from people who didn't post to Forum thread?

I think that all boys have at least one time or another (or maybe more than that) had to come to grips with the thought of their father as a sexual being or even an object of some kind of sexual emotions or physical intimacy. But they usually grow out (of it) and grow up (more interested in other things or girls (or guys) their own age before any attraction toward their dad is acted upon. Close to 90% of boys have experience with sexual 'play' with other boys - it's about being a male of the human species.

Fathers are likely to have experienced these same fleeting feelings (and then usually they passed ) and the realization about their sons growing up sexually. I noticed that the discussion has since about stopped on this particular thread but the theme is repeated over and over again. One participant said it succinctly: The issue of fathers and their relationship with their sons is a complex and sensitive one for gay men.

There was one point that had many people curious. When asked about the ages of his children, the original person who started the thread avoided answering the question about his son's ages. In today's climate of "anti-child predator" and all the media hype about child sexual abuse, and Internet child/teen sex / chat rooms etc, I realize he probably don't want to admit much of anything, but he could have said just that it's private or that it's not important to the gist of the discussion.

Hope you can get what I meant to say.
Kelly