Trix of the Trade
Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:04 PMif this is the 1st or the nth time you've read this, please give that a read before commenting further. i hope it illuminates many of the misconceptions about my intentions, clarifies the missing pieces and corrects the vague language i originally used. thanks to everyone for taking so much time to participate in this discussion. i hope it continues to be as fruitful as it has been so far.** (10/1/07 930am)
So you might have noticed that I’ve gotten a little political lately. If you’ve missed it, read some of my most recent posts. Time to change things up for a bit and talk about something local. Perhaps I can tie it into the general American trend of greed and power taking over individual choice and freedom. Perhaps it’ll be a stretch. You can decide for yourself.
Last weekend several of my friends and I went to Symbiosis Gathering (www.symbiosis.org). The multi-day festival featured some of the best local and international electronic artists from across the spectrum. Overall, I was very pleased with the music that I heard, from old favorites (Deru) to new ones (Mala). Although the music was the focus of the event, what I noticed more than anything else was the culture of the various communities that come out for this (and many other) events and festivals (what we used to call “raves”) here on the West Coast. Before I continue, I want to put out there that I don’t intend to point fingers specifically at Symbiosis, because they are just one of many events and crews that perpetuates this movement of our subculture that I will describe and critique. These new characteristics reach beyond that festival and are both present in year round events put on by many West Coast event production communities as well as our daily lives. Furthermore, I’d like to state that the ideas in this essay may seem just as judgmental as the attitudes and behaviors that I am calling out as harmful and destructive. Regardless of how you feel about my critical thoughts enclosed, you should know that they come out of both my personal observations and of people in a variety of “social classes” who have shared their impressions through honest conversations over the past week. And now, back to business.
I remember a time when we were all saying “its all about the music.” It was a time when people from many different walks of life found a space to shed the layers of bullshit of the everyday world to express themselves, to find “peace, love, unity and respect” and be welcomed as the freak, geek, weirdo, etc that they truly were. This weekend, I found myself deeply aware of a shift away from these old raver values, into a vanity and classism that is now intricately woven into this part of the rave scene.
I’m not sure what to call this section of the “rave” scene that I am speaking of, but it’s a spin off of the breaks scene, which has musically moved in the direction of hip hop, and whose members predominantly consist of those fond of sexy low bpm, bass heavy tracks (bassnectar, the glitch mob, etc), feathers, fedoras, reconstructed clothing, psychedelics and the art inspired by them, and performance-ritual. You get the picture. I’m not here to call out that this scene has gotten fucked up (most of you have probably observed this already), but I am here to point out what seem to be the deeper layers of why it’s now the way it is and how it has influenced the way we all see and carry ourselves in our communities and in relationship to one another. I’m not implying that these social mores exist in a scene that we are not part of, but rather I’m recognizing and calling us out that this scene is OUR scene. In doing so, I aim to implicate us all as accomplices in something inherently superficial, greedy and self-serving that ultimately discourages open-mindedness and open-heartedness.
Symbiosis provided a perfect opportunity to conduct some anthropological research on classism in this part of the West Coast rave scene. Looking around, it was easy to observe how when certain music is playing (or djs performing) the dancefloor divides into different cliques based on appearances. It was apparent that beyond the superficial differences between cliques, there is a pecking order or class hierarchy, where the upper classes look down upon and don’t associate with the lower classes based predominantly on their appearances.
It’s hard to say exactly what defines a certain class, but the most obvious and defining characteristics is appearance as defined by fashion, body image, age, etc. The upper echelon are the trustafarian peacocks (www.urbandictionary.com/define.php and their wealthy associates. Think couture clothing, custom leather, and those who more or less keep the tribal markets and bazaars (and the poor artists of Bali) in business. A breed that remarkably resembles the fashionistas of NYC or Paris. They are attractive, they are skinny, they are young, they are “the beautiful people from the future” as several people I know have called them. I watch them only associate with their kind, often turning a cold shoulder to those who dress and look differently. I might as well call it out - they are the El Circo’s of the scene. Yes, there are some who don’t look like them but who get acknowledged – mainly, the djs and drug dealers who have their own kind of power – these people are somewhat welcome into these circles, even though they will never be considered their equals, and are treated more like a powerful and influential servant class. The allure is obviously tempting, what a great opportunity to be near the rich and powerful and at the same time invest in your art.
Working down the social hierarchy are the tutu-ed faeries (who some might say are trying to create their own separatist elite class, but I don’t think they’ve succeeded), then those who sport reconstructed clothing, and down the line we go. Where do you fit in?
So what’s the problem? Well, the challenge is that these rich and powerful folks propagate the memes of the scene. It might be the music geeks that support new upcoming talent in the underground, but it’s the upper class that define what is cool and hip. They are the ones who support the designers and artists on the largest of scales, and the rest of the scene follows suit. What is cool is woven so deeply and intricately into the culture that we become unconscious of our choices and attitudes towards those who look different than us. Not only do aesthetics weave their way into the scene, but the whole vanity meme follows suit. The rich and (therefore) powerful may be vain, but they’re also sexy and mysterious – the allure to follow their lead is strong. The superficiality trickles down to all levels, where even those closer to the bottom judge those who appear different, with regard to fashion, body image and age.
As I stood on the dancefloor Sunday morning at the forest stage, I looked around me seeing it all play out. It seemed like there were so many people dressing not to express themselves, but to mimic the upper class trustafarians, convinced that they are making their own personal choices. And as I looked around, I knew that despite their efforts some would never make their way up the social ladder into those exclusive circles because of their age, weight and income. I became sad for those who (whether consciously or unconsciously) strive to be accepted by the upper class folks by not only emptying their bank accounts on fashion accessories, but also participating in body modification (not only tattoos and piercings, but also insane exercise regimens and health food consumption). Our self esteem is so easily dependent on others’ acceptance of us, so it is all too easy to fall into the traps of changing ourselves to be more like the beautiful people.
The rich and (therefore) powerful set the standards for the culture, their financial influence over the arts determines what is cool, and the rest of the community attempts to live up to these standards, by spending hard earned money to meet the subculture’s rules. Meanwhile, as the most affluent group looks down upon the rest of the community for not being cool, hip, styled, etc, the 2nd most affluent group follows their lead and submits the classes below them to the same scrutiny (despite the irony that they will never be able to be accepted by the upper class, unless they find more disposable income, get skinnier, younger, etc). Rinse, repeat all down the social ladder.
The social hierarchy or pecking order is set and the attitudes of social climbing, or associating with cool people (or those of your class or better) becomes a large motivating factor of participation in the scene, regardless of what class you belong to. As we move down the pecking order, the classes are more tolerable and welcoming (as you would guess since they are oppressed by the higher classes), but still have judgment towards those below them that don’t fit the mold.
You might be saying “that’s not me, that’s them!” However, I challenge you on that assertion. Its so easy to point fingers and not take responsibility. I cannot say that we all do this, but I do and have witnessed it happening in my closest friend groups and across all of the social classes. I’m here writing about you and I just as much as I am writing about them. These ideas of vanity and classism extend all the way down into each one of our social circles and affect us all individually. For example, one of my dj friends who we would all agree lives his life in a class above mine, was quick to condemn the class above him for their vanity and classist attitude, since they have treated him like shit in the past. He confidently said that his group of friends is unlike the elite group, because when they gather he feels comfortable and welcome. Through some discussion, we both came to realize that we both belong to social classes, where some of us are welcomed and others are not because of appearances.
I’m not saying that our unwelcome is always intentional. I believe more often than not that we are working so hard at maintaining our status (self worth) in a certain class, by reinforcing the connections with those in our class, or trying to make connections with those in higher classes, that we find ourselves without time or energy for those whose appearance is of a lower social class.
So back to Symbiosis…Later on Sunday afternoon, when I went over to the field stage I noticed something different where sounds of psytrance filled the valley. The “trancers” as we call them have their cliques, but there doesn’t seem to be such a classist, hierarchical organization based in money and appearance. I was a part of that scene for a long time and never noticed those things being present and that still seems to be true today. Trancers, whether they dress in those fluorescent Star Trek outfits, wear tie-dye, regular street clothes or some ridiculous costume, smile at each other and dance with each other. There is no pecking order that you must work your way up to be welcomed into their stomping ground. Hell, you can even look like a breaks or hip hop kid and they are welcoming. And there seems to be much more permeability in the different subgroups in that scene. The PLUR values seem to have held out as the scene has avoided in some way or another the classism that’s worked its way into other systems.
So why has this happened in this part of the scene and not the others? Why is it largely limited to the West Coast? I’d like to blame LA’s influence, but that seems a little too simple. Perhaps those attracted to this kind of music in the rave scene are also easily tempted into the excitement of sex, drugs and fashion that the elite have brought within the boundaries of the community and once again the geeks want to be just like the cool kids, just like high school. Now’s the second chance to be popular.
Where do we go from here? I find myself looking at my own attitudes towards the people in the scene and see that I have my own judgments based on people’s appearances. How do I step away from these judgments? As I contribute my energy to music and art events in SF, how to I insert my beliefs of non-judgment and acceptance into a scene that has already been infected with these vain and blindly classist attitudes. Does throwing an event in this scene automatically continue to push these vain attitudes that favor those who have more money to live up to the standards set by the elite? Can we continue to financially and socially support those promoters, artists and designers who reinforce classism and social hierarchy in our music scene? What changes are we willing to make? Do we feel the need to make changes in our own contributions to the scene that reinforce the class and social hierarchy and the vanity that comes with it? Are we mature enough to take a step back and reflect on how own social status (and the urge to maintain it or climb up the social ladder) is tied to our self esteem? In what ways are we willing to change our own attitudes and behaviors to create a more open, loving and friendly culture that doesn’t judge people based on social class and appearances both in the larger scene and in our smaller social circles?
At last weekend’s festival, I saw a theme that has been growing over the past few years as the West Coast breaks/hip hop scene recreates our mainstream culture’s standards that empower the rich and powerful and look down upon those who don’t fit the mold. The more those who don’t fit the mold change to fit the standards of the elite group, the more they are accepted by the culture as a whole. The pressure is immense to leave those with undesirable characteristics behind, even if it means oneself. Almost mindlessly and helplessly, so many of us take on these negative attitudes and spread them throughout our subculture, often rejecting our own identities, values and self worth in order to be seen and accepted by others. It is a way of life here in our little culture that I’m not proud to be a part of. I am looking for ways to create some change, in the face of the powerful forces that influence our lives with harmful and negative energy. How sad that we who try and create communities that differ from typical American values, end up embodying the same unhealthy attitudes and repeating the same destructive patterns.
My goal with this post is to create an ongoing dialogue about this subject so that we can create positive change in our lives. I'm fortunate enough to be connected to people in many social classes, so i hope this facilitates dialogue between them. When you go out this weekend, take these ideas with you and observe what you see on the dancefloor and in yourself. I’ll probably bug you from time to time about this, because it is important to me and it so easily gets pushed aside, because it brings into question so much of what we look forward to each weekend. I welcome your comments on my blog, via email, on the phone or in person. See you soon on the dancefloor.
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:04 PM -
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:35 PM
Wow.
Yes, what you write about has been a bit overbearing for the last few years and is most definitely taking away from the music, that is for sure. It's becoming more about cult of personality... I for one, love my jeans and t-shirt. I'll even rock a pair of white tube socks. :) |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:43 PM
Mad, mad, mad respect for putting this out there. Recalling our conversation, I remember thinking it'd be great for it to go beyond just one-on-one's and the little whisperings in which the topic has existed for so long between so many of us. And yeah, no matter what someone's stance/thoughts are on this, just the dialog itself is really important, especially now. The mirror hurts sometimes, but the reflection is almost always something we can adjust if we aren't pleased. I'm ready for close-up.....anyone else?
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:51 PM
Dude, right on. Thanks for the thoughtful, articulate, and thorough posting on this.
I look forward to talking to you all about this soon. Bug me. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:51 PM
this very subject has been grating on me so much since last christmas that i've probably lost 8 layers of skin.
I agree, i have my own take on some of this given my position is more from the fashion standpoint than the music, but yeah... social hierarchy and based along standards that i cannot allign with. i'm happy to talk to you more about it in person- |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:56 PM
very well put......I know a lot of people have been saying things like this and having these feelings in private, but I'm glad it's finally being broached publicly.
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:57 PM
wow.
well, you said it.
i agree with so much of what you say here. thank you for so eloquently putting it out there. i have so many things to say on this topic, but i'll try to be somewhat brief and succinct. i like how you've singled out the trancers as a potentially good example of how plur and diversity can live on in a musical scene such as these. i think symbiosis has been one of my favorite festivals because the organizers are clearly trying to bring together a variety of musical scenes with the intention of them interacting happily for a weekend, and perhaps growing and learning from each other. i was both pleased and displeased to see a certain headliner on this year's bill as i knew it would mean more ticket sales and thus more revenue for my friends the organizers, but also a much greater influx of this more classist feather persuasion in the mix. and while there was definitely more of both, i think it was still quite a bit more agreeable a social climate than some of the other festivals i've attended this year. take for example a smaller festival that i attended quite a bit out of my geographic range earlier this summer. i was very interested in attending specifically for the musical line up, and thus found the means to travel by air rather than make the extremely long car trip. as a flying camper, i had no cooler and a limited amount of food and camping type infrastructure. i also did not know many people in attendence, but hoped to make some new friends. much to my dismay, there were extremely limited food vendor choices, an entirely disproportionate amount of very expensive clothing vendors, and a crowd which was, for the most part (from my perspective) unwelcoming to me and my no leather, no feather state of being. i was dissapointed in the organizers for not considering just how many clothing vendors there were selling extremely expensive items and how little food was available. i really felt that the intention to build a well rounded community was not really there, based on these and other things that displeased me over the weekend, i most likely will not be in attendence next year, despite the phenomenally good music. i will however continue to support symbiosis, and honeslty, i hope next year has more trance, more hippie bands, and less glitch hop becuase i simply prefer the feeling of diversity i get from the crowds. beyond the not-so-pleasant experience i discussed above, i took some time to attend a few very unexpected festivals for someone of my electronic musical snobbery this year. i had the pleasure of accompanying my friends to hsmf and to bobolink. both hippie jam festies. both lovingly referred to by me as "the music-i've-never-heard-of festivals" i also went to the usual suspects - priceless, raindance, symbi, to name a few. and you know what, i had a more fun, unique, accepting, and positive experience from high sierra and bobolink than i did from any of the others and i feel quite confident that it was because this breaks/glitch oriented classism you speak of, just wasnt' there. i don't know how i intend to approach festival season next year. but i can say that my dislike for some of these social nuances is starting to affect my love for breaks and glitch oriented music. i can't help it. if i don't love the vibe on the dance floor eventually i start to dislike the very art that brings us there. luckily there are lots more types of music, lots more scenes and lots more ways to get my fun plur fix. thanks for starting this off. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 2:10 PM
Thank you for expressing your thoughts here and broadcasting them across the tribeface.
This very topic was somewhat recently under discussion in a small private tribe I am part of. I find your organization of these thoughts a relief to the floundering halt we eventually called to the conversation, because - unable to express ourselves with this kind of self-inclusive objectivity - eventually the whole discussion unraveled into complaints on one end and overcompensation for the complaints on the other. Either way when the discussion ended it was neither comfortable nor was there a sense of understanding for why we as a group were feeling this way.
Thanks for sending your essay out across the "classes". I'll be interested in your thoughts on the responses you will have received from the active readers when next I see you. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 2:18 PM
i remember dancing with unabandon, a great friend put it this way-i was dancing, really dancing for the first time in this lifetime. Of CourSE i would be so full of raw primal energy!
i got a lot out and filled my heart! these days im more chilling and going to dance as my community battery charge up and social engage. I still see though a lot of lushness in our scene up here in BC, we all party together, sure there are definitely circles but if ones heart is in the right place, they are loved! comon up to BC! and play any ol time... In all fairness this fashion cult has spread to my recesses, i like my clothing to be an expression , and sometimes body armour as i walk out into the world...like say at some chain store, i walk around and people look at me quizzically and i smile back =) i like to bust the cool pyramid to smitherines even if i may take part in hyprcritcal activity. In my heart i KNOW that we need to accept EVERYONE. how do you think youguns end up in the army?? becuase they want to BELONG, and they for the most part have only been able to find this in school sports or not at all! classism is a very dangerous game to play, and all of us ESPECIALLY have the Responsibility and oppertunity to evolve this unserving way. We need to be there and nurture all those precious hearts waking up and dancing, really dancing for the first time in this lifetime. stop being jealous of those that rise!! we all rise when we all rise. thanks for the reminder and for speaking your mind. and i give you the first test of acceptance!-my notably *lousy grammer! |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 2:30 PM
i mediate by disallowing any ego to be flexed onto my persona
i agree that some may not be blessed with such strength of will.. but as long as i one continues to see classism; and allow it to effect their experience; it will exist i try to stretch my experience through all scenes and faces maybe its just the idealist in me refusing to bow to anything but open i personally saw symbiosis as a blending of interactions though the classes and found it more open than most parties ive gone to in sf this was possibly due to my position at the festival and the inherent respect addressed towards me i guess i also keep in mind that faces in our community often come from an artist driven world where you survive by selling yourself: so setting people back into their place of human like everyone is often a good place to begin transformation |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 2:47 PM
thanks everyone for your comments so far. i'm reply more in depth later today or over the weekend.
a few observations right now. - i have gotten many private messages thanking me for posting this in addition to the ones posted here. everyone has been very supportive, however, i am not quite sure why the subject is quickly put back behind closed doors. which brings me to... - i have noticed little to no admission, reflection, nor taking of responsibility for ones own actions that reinforce these vales and classism. i believe that this trend in our scene continues, perpetuates and grows largely as a result of everyone pointing fingers and talking about "those people". just because you are a victim of oppression, doesn't mean you aren't an oppressor as well. i took the stance on writing this that i have observed both myself and my closest friends participating in these behaviors and taking on these attitudes. self exploration and admission of mistakes is a good place from which to grow. - i will be posting this essay for a wider audience on various tribes on monday. |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:02 PM
this is excellent.
inspiring to see your fingers pointed inward as much as outward, 'It' being something we all help to create and then participate in. I judge you. You judge me. It's just like highschool and then we all get our feelings hurt... Its good to be called out from a place of accountablity and love. |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:15 PM
i agree with you, trix, and am a little puzzled as to people's responses. or maybe i'm not puzzled - it's very hard to admit that one is an oppressor, and it's hard to not just point fingers, and it's hard to take a step back and look at one's own actions. i'm definitely guilty of that one, and i know we all are.
one of the lessons i learned years ago from a mentor of mine (in a class about queer theory and racism) was that we are *all* homophobic. we are *all* racist. we are *all* classist. and coming to terms with that fact, with all the stupid prejudices and stereotypes that we carry around with us (even when we don't want them), will do an immense amount of good for one's humility and for one's ability to take effective action in changing those stereotypes and those dynamics. just being part of a system, in this case this particular subculture, which we can't forget is part of and mimics a larger system of american society (come on, don't deny it), implicates each of us. so here i am, hanging out in false profit, throwing our parties, blocking out huge sections of dancefloors, and being insular regarding who camps next to us at campouts. we do this in the name of being friends, and connecting with people of similar interests. there's truth in this. there's also truth in the fact that we do this based on fairly complicated network of intertwining factors regarding dress, appearance, age, education, etc. that can be quite isolating to others who don't make the cut. i could go on forever and self- critique these things that we do, and in fact, i do. as a cultural critic who can't really stand establishment and institution, it's how i function and how i figure out what the hell's wrong with the institution's i'm part of. and yet, i admit that part of that critique must be the admission that by simply being part of the scene as a whole, the subscene, and a subscene of a subscene, i'm part of the problem. it takes more than just saying "i'm part of the problem" to open up and figure out what the problem actually is and how to change it. i've been struggling with this aspect of the scene for many months now, and have considered leaving it, as a way to reduce my collusion with the issue and a way to start connecting with communities that feel a little more honest and genuine. but i'm not convinced that just leaving is the solution. i do think dialogue is the first of many steps to make any real change happen. that and the acknowledgement that healing communities of these sorts of divisions takes a long time, a ton of honesty about oneself, an ability to be truly vulnerable, and some creative thinking and action. thanks for writing this, trix. i hope people can stick with the dialogue for a good long while and not just shove it back under the rug, all the while patting themselves on the back that they said something and that's good enough. change takes action, not just talk. i know that that's something i'm practicing these days myself, but could use help from others. it's tough to make change as a lone individual. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:17 PM
Nice one, man. I've got PLENTY of thoughts on this topic, but also way too much work to complete today to get into it (reading all this already took up too much time, damn you all!).
I hope this conversation is still going - somewhere - when I can chime in. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:21 PM
re - self reflection... how am I contributing by my actions or reactions?
i guess i can't deny that i probably am, and i appreciate the challenge... but it seems like a lose-lose situation. i wonder... if we are all guilty of perpetuating this from one perspective or another, how can we find a solution? is it a chicken - egg conundrum?
i look forward to your anthropological perspective. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:25 PM
I think some of the impulses you are pointing to are so ingrained in human brains that we all have them on some level. The skill of taking in lots of visual data and discarding what is not important is a crucial part of our cognitive function as a species. The question isn't how to stop doing that but how to rewrite the paradigm on a community-wide level. What data are important to absorb or discard when looking at a person to determine how close to stand to them? How many degrees of smile does every person who smiles at you get? Walking for transit in a crowded city like San Francisco, I need to every day decide which of the people who talk to me to interact with. I think I'm pretty unusual that it's mostly the dirty ones sitting on the ground. This weeding is necessary in any densely populated environment. How can we steer it to be more egalitarian?
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:28 PM
hey cat, i understand that frustration and sense of lose-lose. i think what's important in admitting that you are (and i am and everyone is) part of the problem is that then a lot of those defensive boundaries can be broken down. once those boundaries are broken, then people are less likely to lash out with the "not me" defense, and it's much easier to build bridges and to tackle an issue honestly, in collaboration, creatively.
now, if all we do is *talk* about how we all suck because we're part of the problem, and then just shrug our shoulders and consider that enough, well, then it *is* a lose-lose situation. talking and dissecting need to happen first. then through the talking and dissecting, people can start connecting, coming up with ideas on how to change themselves, their culture, their actions, and then we can actually start making those changes. i think we all need to remember that this is a long process, and not something that happens overnight. talking is only the first step...! (i sound like a 12 step program, i know...) |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:34 PM
Why I still love trance...
Thanks indeed for the long, thoughtful stream of insights into our culture, glad I stumbled across it. I agree with much of what you say and being someone who rarely sports anything besides jeans and a t-shirt, have definitely felt looked-down/excluded upon by what you describe as the upper classes. I guess what I wanted to add is that just because they are looking down, does not mean that we need to be looking up... I may be impressed with the "wizard-hippy-tribal" image that some have put so much money and effort into creating for themselves, but I certainly don't see them enjoying the music more than you or I do. Overall I view the fact that I have not connected with the superficial upper classes as a good thing: a closed group will ultimately die out from either incest or infighting. But then the other point is this: what about the supposed "lower classes" which I guess I have to confess to having nothing to do with either, though I don't really view myself as being intentionally exclusive. I go to the events to enjoy loud fucking music that allows me to expand my consciousness and love for life. Which brings it back to another one of your points: it's not just about the music anymore (was it ever though?)... Just the word "scene" belies the context in which we place our social lives.
You point out a bunch of the reasons why you will never find me on the dancefloor when bassnectar is playing and why I would leave an amazing set by RAB or the Glitch Mob to go dance to trance on the field stage. Trance is still mostly about the music (ok and maybe also the psychedelics) and the unity that we all feel when it is rocking us to our core. Still a lot of people I've talked to view trance as blue-collar electronic music. I see it as the grandfather clock of electronic music - it's been around for ever and it's not going anywhere anytime soon - I don't think it will ever be popularized the way breaks have in recent years. I do think there's a link between the mainstream popularity of breaks and the genre blending with hip-hop, etc. that contribute to the disfunctionality you describe. The breaks scene is indeed much more overtly sexual both in terms of the music style and the fashion that surrounds, so perhaps evolutionary competition is kicking in to a certain degree. So is that maybe some of what's causing it? After all, a large component of any class system anywhere determining which circle you can marry into. We certainly don't see any grinding going on on the dance floor when there's hard psy-trance playing... Ok, I have to apologize first for adding so much incoherent babble relative to your immensely articulate diatribe and also for not really making a clear point. Will do some more thinking though ... thanks for getting the idea(s) out there. |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:36 PM
rachel has a good point too...
some of this is behavior we are not aware of, but all guilty of ... we should make an effort to be more aware.
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:39 PM
DUDE.............
YOU NAILED IT! Thank you for this. I'm totally sick of the trust fund fedora-feather mafia. B-O-R-I-N-G. They all look the same and the music has gone downhill. Glitch is exactly what it means, "a glitch in the system" "A mistake" "An unwanted interruption." That and the elitism is pathetic. All I can really say is thank you. Thank you. Thank you. |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:58 PM
a very good friend of mine directed me toward your entry, and i have to say that i was glad to see someone do such a level-headed breakdown of the social dynamic as it presently stands within the "scene" in question.
as a total stranger to you, i feel like i might have something interesting to add to this dialogue that i've noticed is lacking. take a look at the numbers next to the names of the people speaking publicly. when i started writing this, not a single one was in the double digits. as of now, there are only a few. there is clearly still a "right to speak" in this, and though i'd be a hypocrite to say that i'm any better for being further down the popularity totem pole than some, i do think it's something to note. given that, for myself, i must say that i am definitely guilty of that which you described on many accounts. i have friends to whom i have a difficult time even extending an invite to something within this scene because part of me almost feels a sense of embarrassment at being the girl with the uncool friend at the cool kids party. it's fucked up. it truly is. but there you have it. it actually makes me feel sick to my stomach to admit that, but that sick feeling is nothing in comparison to the feeling of any friend i don't invite based on that "principle." even worse, how does my friend feel when i tell them how cool the party was that i went to without having ever extended an invitation? being someone who passively reinforces this behavior, i shudder to think at what it takes to do the very same thing to someone's face. i've definitely been on the receiving end of that blow, and it's no secret that it's really shitty, and ultimately, something that destroys friendships. we all rationalize this kind of behavior by saying, "i'm cool to everyone for the most part," but just because you'll say hi to someone on the street doesn't mean that not saying hi in the club is okay, since you already got it out of the way. i know that i sometimes find myself hiding behind the fact that i'm a pretty shy person in order to duck out of certain social environments, but the excuse, as a practice, does nothing to relieve tensions, and still comes off as what it really is - the same ego-centric bullshit. having said all of that (and having thrown my hat into the ring of lengthy responses), i would like to thank you for taking the time to write this amazing essay and putting yourself on the line. i very deeply hope that you make a point of posting it in as many relevant places as possible because it's way past time for constructive dialogue on all of this. furthermore, i think rather than each of us admitting to yet another instance of having gotten burned, it's time for us each to admit to a time when we each burned someone else. it's easy to be a victim, but hard to be an offender. the thing is, if we don't admit our shared guilt now, we're never really going to see that this nastiness is purged so that we can start seeing eye to eye once again. best, ~e. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:58 PM
Thanks for sharing Stephen, I am a watcher and have seen it....
I don't really bother to go out into the scene anymore because it has become so tribally homoginized. I certainly at times have played my part of some of the bullshit and vanity in the scene, and an ass to the dj's when I was drinking, but I have always prefered to give everyone a chance. Each one of us plays a role in the makeup of society and to exclude anyone is conforming and closing off our world to what great things can come from beautiful souls. I am looking for the beauty within people and for quite some time I have been seeing alot of ugly. I have had y moments of fear and pushed some good people away, only because I had problems with myself. I guess I just am taking this opportunity to reflect on myself and look at my shit, and I definately have alot to work on myself. It's sad because what we have here in the Bay Area is such a portal for amazing creativity and change. I can't rag on the people that have created such beautiful things (styles, cloths, art, music etc.) because I think it is a wonderful thing, and I like a good amount of it, but the ego's and "higher than though" attitute also creates a cespool to ugliness. Let go of the ego. Everyone is important in there own way, just as much as anyone else. If you are looking down on people and not giving them the time of day because you put yourself on a pedistal, you should probably take a good look at yourself. What are you afraid of? If you truely love yourself and are confident, than what harm would it do to even just look up and smile and say hello, there are so many truely beutiful real people out here, dorky, geeky, goofy, cool, shy, scared, creative, annoying on and on.
Everyone deserves a chance. Just want to send out a big thank you to all of you who are not afraid to be yourselves and be real. I love you. Next time I see you, I will send you a smile, maybe we could all do the same, I don't think your face will crack and if it gets stuck there it wouldn't be so bad and if your "cool" friends have a problem with it, you may want to look at those friendships. Be you, not for what you think your so called friends want you to be. No one is perfect, we all have faults, I am working on mine and it's been a battle, but life is too short, every interaction you make with a person will from that moment on can and will affect the lives of many down the line. Try to make it count in a positive way. Love, Shaleaf |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 4:32 PM
stephen, what kind of admissions are you looking for? i'm assuming you don't want a list of apologies on this thread.
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 4:33 PM
erin, you brought up an issue that's good for me to remember and reflect on within this topic...
> i have friends to whom i have a difficult time even extending an invite to something within this scene because part of me almost feels a sense of embarrassment at being the girl with the uncool friend at the cool kids party. ... even worse, how does my friend feel when i tell them how cool the party was that i went to without having ever extended an invitation? being someone who passively reinforces this behavior, i shudder to think at what it takes to do the very same thing to someone's face. ... we all rationalize this kind of behavior by saying, "i'm cool to everyone for the most part," but just because you'll say hi to someone on the street doesn't mean that not saying hi in the club is okay, since you already got it out of the way. i know that i sometimes find myself hiding behind the fact that i'm a pretty shy person in order to duck out of certain social environments, but the excuse, as a practice, does nothing to relieve tensions, and still comes off as what it really is - the same ego-centric bullshit. as i started finding my place within the community a year and a half or or so ago, i struggled with parts of this issue a lot. i'd found a place where i was comfortable, and i was tired of being on the outside trying to fit in, tired of wandering around observing with friends who were equally outside. so gradually, without noticing the change, i stopped calling friends to come join me on the dancefloor unless they were people i felt completely comfortable with--comfortable with in terms of class and social ability. it's easy to justify this behavior when you think of how great a night can be with the right company versus how stressful it can be when you've got an outsider in tow--why would you want to spend an amazing party trying to make sure someone else was having fun and feeling comfortable? i haven't really made myself ponder on this in a few months, but it was placed in my face a few times at symbiosis last weekend. as people have pointed out, it's an unusally diverse event compared to what we usually participate in. and there were a lot of people there who i knew from my pre-dancing days. i was really excited to see them all, and tried to find time during non-prime-dance hours to talk and dance a little with them, but at no point did i consider trying to pull them into my weekend or dancing in a more intimate or serious way. i didn't want to have to deal with helping them navigate, or worrying that they wouldn't be comfortable, or making sure they weren't somehow breaking protocol on the dancefloor. my previous paragraph, i think, touches on some of the justifications i've built as i've stopped being so friendly over the last year or so. 'i deserve to have my dance time.' 'i'm allowed to focus on me when i'm out partying.' 'everyone has to find their own place within the scene to be comfortable.' and i do believe in those justifications. but as i find myself less and less willing to stop and engage with casual friends when i see them out, because i think i'd be happier doing my own thing with my immediate family-types, i'm worried that i've become too used to telling myself i'm allowed to be selfish, and have stopped considering how much the friendliness of the scene can be its best and most welcoming attribute. i know a lot of people. i met a ton of people as i wandered around san francisco, the festival scene, and some connected burner cities. i used to be hyper-friendly, and i used to spend social time with a diverse array of people. i know that i'm no longer as friendly, and that i've folded myself into a specific layer of the social strata. partly this is a result of the pressure i felt/feel as a moderately known persona around the scene--i got tired of being that friendly, fun, super-social person. it's also partly because if i were to spend my nights engaging in superficial friendliness with all the people i know at parties, i'd never get any time with my close friends on the dancefloor. but it's allllso partly because i've now found my little social niche, and i no longer need to scout around looking for connections and belonging, and suddenly the importance of talking to people outside my niche decreases, because they're not part of the network that makes me happy and comfortable when i'm out. i don't think that there's anything inherently wrong with my actions and decisions. but it definitely makes me part of the problem if we're trying to create an inclusive, ever-friendly environment. should i start inviting outsider-ish friends to come dance more often? should i make more time for shy people and people who look like they want to fit in but don't yet? should i go back to being a scene-bridger and risk losing some of the excellent support, security, comfort, and yes--identity--that i've gained by being part of a group for the last year? i think this may have been a little tangential, but that aspect resonated with me... |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 4:47 PM
misc notes
for development later...
-i noticed during trips to new york over two years that the class system is almost absent there. there's still difference in dress, but everyone's friendly to everyone else. freek factory camped with disorient two years ago. (dogs and cats, living together; mass hysteria...) i'm under the impression that portland's also a little less divided. don't know about el lay. -i feel strongly that it's all tied most directly to the music, with drugs also playing a strong role. music + drugs + people = scene. different types of music are for different types of people. and spark different types of behavior. and work well with different types of drugs. (grindy bassy sexual music + sensual/sensory hallucinogens) vs (thumpy music + e) vs (heady music + all-acid-all-the-time) -i'm intrigued that you think money is such a strong factor. i've never noticed that. not sure i agree. a lot of the people i play with in some of the leather-and-feather crew are just scraping by and paying rent. they may prioritize fashion over some other expenses, but they're also often living as artists and lacking in income. and i don't like the use of the word 'trustafarian' in the peacock description. there are people in every class of our scene who have money. when i think of the negative influences of money in the burner community, i think of wasteful extravagant burning man camps, not of artists who wear their friends' clothes. -don't forget about the dance as a bridge between classes... clothes stop mattering half as much if you can dance with someone wearing another type of costume. of course, dance elitism is a whole other type of prejudice, one that i've been accused of carrying in spades. but i do like to reassure myself my insisting that it's a *little* less superficial than prejudice based on clothes... heh--rationalizing :) oh, but the defenses of individuals i can come up with when i've shared good dance time with them... |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 4:57 PM
it's difficult for me to respond to this because my brain is fairly overloaded when it comes to this subject, but i'll try.
first of all, i'll totally admit to being a fashion snob, but not in the way that is "you don't have the right clothes so i'm not talking to you" that you're pointing out here. in fact, i'm of the opposite opinion, which it seems you hinted you also have: when i see those wearing the marks of certain cliques, i admit to judging THEM for being what i perceive as followers, just like with all other fashion trends that get ubiquitized and mass reproduced and sold as "unique" at very high prices. however, i don't think it's necessarily fair to call out the "FHM"/"feathers and leather" on this one. i think ravers with their binkies and candy accessories did it/still do it, i think the furry burners do it, i think the clowns do it, i think the hipsters do it, and i think the jeans/hoody crew does it. i think it's part of human culture to express yourself via clothing/accessories - from the tribes of the amazon to the elite of Paris. i will never say that it's "wrong" to judge someone by their appearance - what someone wears says a lot about them, whether they want to admit it or not. those who only wear t-shirts/hoodies are making just as much of a choice about what to wear as those who are wearing custom leather. you can get crazy fun clothing at goodwill for just as cheap as you can buy anything else. trust me - i'm a serious thrift shopper. those who say "i'm not part of this because i only wear standard street wear" are not admitting to their own fashion preferences and judgements, and i've heard many people of such garb say "i felt more comfortable talking to that person because they were dressed like me". given that, for me, personally: i might have an opinion (positive or negative) on your fashion choices - which i might either applaud or deride to your face - but i would never treat anyone differently based on that opinion, as when it all comes down to it, we're all human underneath. having grown up extremely poor, i had to deal with the richer girls from my school making fun of my Goodwill /homemade wardrobe for years, and having experienced that i would never treat someone differently because they can't afford a $300 custom outfit. i will however, appreciate a $300 custom leather outfit for it's fashionable value! i would never say that i think the FHM should stop dressing the way they do - it's gorgeous! also: i have trouble not feeling that a certain amount of this "problem" that you are pointing out is self-inflicted by those who feel they are treated differently. i think a LARGE part of the anti-FHM sentiment being expressed here is self-perpetuated, and then the more that sentiment is spread around, the more people perceive such "classism" happening when in fact it might not really be as bad as you're making it sound. is it wrong to clique up with your friends on the dancefloor? i don't think so. i feel more safe and comfortable dancing next to people i know. just because a group appears to be congregating according to looks doesn't mean that they're doing anything other than having fun with their friends. i don't think it's fair to expect everyone to mix with everyone either. not everyone is out to make 15 new friends every time they go out. not everyone on the dance floor is that social - some people just like to DANCE. does fashion help identify people who most likely share your interests? yes, it does. is that wrong? no, it isn't. what i WILL agree on is that it IS wrong to change your ACTIONS and treatment of someone based on what someone is wearing. it is wrong to ignore someone, to not return a smile, to push them out of the way, to give them the cold shoulder on the dancefloor or, vice versa, to give someone special treatment based on the fact that they are dressed more like you. finally: almost everyone who attends the type and style of events you are describing are of enough means and leisure to have the time/moneyopportunity to do things like this (even the "starving artist" claimers), which the majority of the world's population does not, and are all of somewhat the same subculture, otherwise they wouldn't know about it and be there. that in itself means that we are all not that different, and that these perceived divisions among us are very small, and perhaps instead of focusing on these small divisions, we should all remember that there is a great amount of unity and commonality within the west coast rave/festival subculture and start focusing on THAT instead of these small differences. sorry if that all rambled on a bit. thx for putting this out there. love,a |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 5:12 PM
blurp!
I don't even know where to begin!
of course big applause for the courage to bring this up...and well-spoken as always! Personally, I am highly judgmental and I vacillate between accepting it and working hard towards ridding myself of it. There's balance in there somewhere. I've actually been more on the end of not being so judgmental of the "trustafarian peacock." "They" are people too. And while I've definitely felt affronted by this particular niche of the breaks scene (as much as I've felt revered), basically my response to the former has been "ok, this isn't where I want to be" and I go elsewhere. Ironically, my response to the latter has been the same. I haven't been out in this scene much at all, if any, for exactly this reason. My feeling was that I was amid "performers" playing their "character." I hold no judgment in this statement though...at least I try really hard to hold no judgment in this and sometimes I'm successful. I think we are all creative people, we are all artists. I am lucky enough to be able to get actual performance gigs (where it is clear that I am the performer) in order to get my fix. But in psycho-analyzing this scene, I think lots of people put on their "character" within it, where the "performance" is not so clear. It IS about expressing different attributes of personality, and I think that's beautiful. The problem here is mistaking a certain look for "beautiful" rather than a certain person expressing their true self as "beautiful." Then idealizing that certain look, and/or succumbing to marketing as that certain look being "cool" or "beautiful." Lack of originality and expression of the true self is NOT beautiful. How do we change it? Get in touch with yourself, who you are, what you're drawn to, and express yourself in that way. I think it's interesting that Stephen plugged in "reconstructed clothes" in here because I think that's actually a great way to do this (YOURSELF) in an external format. Chop yourself up and remake your expression. I could ramble forever, but I actually want to give huge props to Cat for this...publicly. I see Burning Man in particular as a platform to do this, and thus in previous years have offered up my sewing/design skills (sometimes paid, sometimes gift) to help people make this vision happen. My experience has been disappointing and thus, I didn't offer it this year. But Cat came into my shop, grinning WIDE, and gave me a personal fashion show of her vision for herself this year. It was like nothing I'd ever seen. Honestly, part of me was thinking "oh dear, she's going to get snubbed," but fuck ya mad mad props to her for seeing herself and manifesting that expression! Gorgeous! Overall, what has helped me with all this stuff is to have a sense of humor about it all. People are funny. And we do weird things. We all succumb to marketing...we all have times of insecurity...we all judge... we all trip... we all fall... we all get ourselves back up and hopefully laugh at it later when we've learned from the experience. The scene is tripping and falling... so why not shake it up? Do something absurd to make it glitch. Wear those tube socks! :)m |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 5:13 PM
i adore lady.leblanc.
> i think a LARGE part of the anti-FHM sentiment being expressed here is self-perpetuated, and then the more that sentiment is spread around, the more people perceive such "classism" happening when in fact it might not really be as bad as you're making it sound. is it wrong to clique up with your friends on the dancefloor? i don't think so.
thanks for the statement. i agree. there are negative attributes of cliques that emerge at scene parties sometimes, but i don't think the cliques themselves are necessarily bad. and bitching about people who you think are snotty--when you've never interacted with them and are judging them as much as you think they're judging you--is not something that's going to help the problem. someone have time to go to el circo tribe and pull up one of the loooong-ass threads there that goes into this issue? good reflection and admission and defense from all sorts of awesome folks who're part of that awesome crew. (i'm glad that new vocab besides 'el circo' has started to be used to describe the feathery cliques. el circo includes some really friendly, really incredible, hard-working people, and i hate tarnishing that group's name.) |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 5:20 PM
CHIP!!!
I was thinking the same thing. Getting older and a more mature, robust scene has a lot to do with it. |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 5:51 PM
orange, your insight is invaluable.
i think it's extremely important to avoid justification for behavior that is exclusive but to understand that that doesn't invalidate those justifications as they are clear patterns of behavior that are established for perfectly good reasons. no one is going to be "friends with everyone," but there are certain things that do occur wherein people opt not to be friends with (let alone associate with or acknowledge) anyone who doesn't fall into that circle of cool that are perpetuated by such heavy rationalization of "i wanted to spend time with my friends." seriously. how long does it take to say hi to someone and genuinely mean it? is that really tearing you away from your good time so much? on that same token, singling out one factor: music, fashion, drugs, looks, and saying, "i don't discriminate on that plane," or "yeah, fuck the people who like that shit," is still saying that this is THEIR fault. not OUR fault. saying that people are bringing this on themselves or that it's other people who are doing it or being self-congratulatory for being "such a good person" does nothing for actually opening up the dialogue. it's just a whole bigger mess of trying to clear a guilty conscience. anyway. i personally don't see the point in telling myself that i'm a good person. i simply try to be a good person, and if i fail sometimes, i admit my failure and move on. the thing is, the key to moving on from failure is the admission of failure, first. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 6:09 PM
its called tribedustrial
its like fantastical wood elves.... with grommets dont get fooled by these vagabond elitits, they are just as "uncool" as the rest of us, even with their $1000 vests i remember way back in middle school when I decided it wasnt worth worrying about these "cool kids", and i went on rolling my dice and slaying my dragons, now look! those cool kids are left in the dust of my wonderful life, these will be too |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 6:28 PM
Yes we are getting older, have more perspective, know more people, been in more scenes and maybe are less naive.
I like what Orange had to say. After reading Orange’s post, which I identify with, I’m asking myself, Stephen, what are you asking? It’s clear you see something wrong but what exactly do you want to change? What changes do you want and what are you going to do yourself to make those changes? I think your essay is based on the unfounded assumption that there is a lower class and an upper class. If we throw that assumption out, then I really don’t see much of a problem except that maybe we all should be more welcoming. The community we are most associated with is itself exclusive …we want to be with people we can trust. Trust takes time. If I spend time with people I’m attracted to, generally that trust and connection develops. There are exceptions. Some people are climbing the ladder or are full of them selves. I think those people are the exception not the rule and in such cases I generally ignore them. There are plenty of other friendly supportive creative fun people in our scene. Another way to gain trust is to have connections. This makes sense as well. If a friend’s good friend comes into a group, I have a basis for trusting that new person and I have someone I can turn to for some level of accountability for the new person. If I meet a total stranger, sometime it just clicks and I fall into trusting them, but often I spend time sorting out who they are. I want to know they are not some sexual pervert/predator who is going to cause damage or some psychopath like the guy who kills several people at a gather in Seattle a few years ago. Or any number of negative people who've stumbled into various parties or BM camps. And, to put things in perspective, when I walk in downtown Portland on the weekend or go to a typical bar or club and see the general lack of mindfulness, blustering rowdiness, drunkenness etc I think our scene looks pretty great comparatively with it’s music, creativity, better social equality and general mindfulness about the world despite its drug issues and social pettiness. Some people might seem elevated because they hang out with the DJs or such, or they have cool cloths, but often those are the people are involved in making the cloths, making the music, supplying sacramentals or are the people who put the most work into the gatherings. The different groups of people make sense to me because people have different interests, proclivities, areas of work and levels of trust. Just as there is a trance stage and an breaks/glitch stage there are groups with-in the break/glitch stage itself. I like what Benno said about there not being much grinding on the trance floor. The more barriers come down, like with sexuality, the more I want to know people I’m sharing that space with or know that I can trust people to respect my boundaries that I do keep. Same could be said for psychedelic experiences. I’ve heard people ask why the scene isn’t more open but it makes sense to me. It takes trust to be really open and trust takes time. One can’t just waltz into a party and be taken under everyone’s wing generally unless everyone is on E (which use to be the case in the 90s, no – is that what we are nostalgic for?). Another factor is that as I know more and more people I spend less and less time with new people. When I go to an event there are usually a bunch of people I haven’t seen in a while or have been emailing with and I want to make connections with those people. That leaves less and less time for meeting new people though I enjoy it when it happens. On the other hand when I first went to BM for example, I didn’t know anyone and would talk to everyone who I had a chance to meet, which wasn’t that many since I was (am) so shy. Our scene doesn’t have written rules or laws to hold someone accountable to (like a religion or legal system) nor do we have guardians generally (like cops). We have some generally unspoken ambiguous codes of conduct and a social web of awareness based on knowing each other to some extent where we watch out for each other. I find it most inspiring when actions start with the speaker. I remember one instance of a girl asking for money for a just cause and telling us why the cause was important – no one was interested – then we chatted about how to better communicated and she changed her story to how she herself was going to make the changes for this cause in the world – we were all inspired and wanted to find ways to support her. My reaction to these “class tendencies” is to try and be open to everyone whether they are “in” or “out” , accept anyone whether in a leather or jeans, encourage a level field, befriend (instead of putting on a pedestal or judging them) the people I’m attracted to and brush off those same people if I feel they getting too caught up in themselves. I don’t always succeed despite myself and I’ve acted less than noble at times. I remember FP’s BM party a 3 years ago, when I acted a bit snobbish myself, which stemmed from the relief I finally felt to be part of a crew. Ironic. At BM this year, I had a different interaction where I had been on stage shooting photos of a DJ and ended up outside talking to some kids about that DJ and the music. They wanted see that DJ among others where the lived and I was encouraging them organize it. They we like “oh, we can’t do that. We don’t know him. He’ll never come to our city”. I encouraged them to make friends with the DJ explaining that this is a *community* and it’s all about friendship and connection. If someone, say a DJ, is too full of themselves, then forget-em. There’s plenty of good music in our scene made my super friendly people to worry about those that get caught up in them selves. “people from many different walks of life found a space to shed the layers of bullshit of the everyday world to express themselves, to find “peace, love, unity and respect” and be welcomed as the freak, geek, weirdo, etc that they truly were” I think the open fluffy kind of experiences still exists – for example I think you would find this feeling stronger at a Rhythm Society gathering than at an El Circo gathering, but is that what you really want? Beyond the openness of the RS, there are new groups where people are discovering open acceptance and their inner dancing geek. I heard good things along these lines about Rhythmwave (from Marin) at BM, I’m sure there are plenty of gatherings that continue the old rave energy though maybe not as much as the 90s. There are always new people coming into the experience with that starry eyed look from a revelatory way of being. I have no personal experience to talk about the 90s E culture, because I wasn’t there, but from what I’ve have experience and from what I’ve heard, one wonderful thing about the rave culture was because of E, everyone was super accepting. I think E usage has fallen off among the people I see the most or at least the attitude and experience while they are on E is very different due to past experience and or change in it’s effects. I think some people, myself included, had the reaction of “I don’t necessarily want to hug everybody in the room” or “hugging everyone in the room is not that cool” and the more people with that attitude the cooler and more reserved the interactions. I also feel that because of cooling attitudes towards E the usage of psychedelics is no longer overshadowed thus creating sometimes awkward social interactions. A know a number of reserved reactions of people come from various psychedelics they are on. That cold shoulder they gave me might have been, and often has turn out to be because I looked like an 8 foot praying mantis or what-ever and they were having a hard time holding it together. I do think the shifting drug tendencies (E,L,Coke,Speed,G,K) change the kinds of interactions and groups that form but that’s a pretty theoretical unsubstantiated feeling. I’m naturally attracted to beauty and if someone has on beautiful cloths I’ll be more attracted to them than someone in ordinary cloths, especially at places like BM where I’m blissed out by all the beautiful creativity. Why are visuals different than music? Why is it OK for musicians have fans and sell their music but when it comes to couture the fans are somehow shallow and the vendors are corrupting the scene? I myself have started wearing more jeans and t-shirts at events because I want to be low key since I’m no longer single and as such don’t seek the same kind of interactions. Where as dressing crazy, getting attention use to be beneficial to meeting people of the opposite sex, I’d rather now, dress more casual and have mellow conversations with friends in the background than cutting it up crazy on the forefront of the dance floor and flirting. I do have issues with the idea of wearing something that cost $1000 to a gathering and personally would encourage spending less and having more personal connection to the cloths I’m wearing. At the same time I think the expensive cloths are beautiful and love the way they look. I think one possible solution would be to try and sell more to the outside world and bring money into the scene verse selling in the scene to many people who really don’t have the means. Shifting our money and resources around inside the scene won’t bring any prosperity but selling to a larger “outside” audience might. Its ironic though that any such activities are often labeled selling out or has bad connotations. Some DJ’s charge $1000 for an hour set for a bunch of people . Someone else pays an artist a $1000 for vest to be worn many many hours on a bunch of evenings. Is it wrong? |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 6:39 PM
Wow. Thank you, Stephen, for initiating this dialogue. This is something I have discussed in private among my closest friends on many occasions, but I've never had the courage to voice my opinions in public. Doing so now has been very difficult for me, because everything I write is deeply personal.....
Your essay really has me examining my own actions- and how they perpetuate this classism in so many ways. I am coming from a place of extreme insecurity, and in many ways my judgments are merely defense mechanisms. I have to admit (as much as it pains me) that I compare myself to the FHM. I see them as extremely sexy, beautifully dressed & well connected individuals who are, at least on the surface, very spiritually activated. I've had many experiences of being brushed off or ignored by the FHM because of my "lower class" status, as I'm sure many of us have. But I've also had amazing moments & connections with some of them (and I hate how I keep referring to the FHM as "them"- this only perpetuates the distance between us.) Still, I find myself spouting negativity and judgments, and nestling myself in a bubble in which somehow *I* am exempt from these issues. When really, I am just as judgmental as the next person. I want to be accepted into the higher class. I want to be acknowledged and recognized. I want expensive clothes and hair extensions and tribal knick-knacks, even though I know my budget will never allow for this. This is hard for me to admit because, in doing so, I am admitting to my own shallow desires. But for me this all ties back into my own extreme insecurity. If I am accepted into the highest echelon, will I get over it? The answer is, of course, a resounding NO. But it's so much easier to strive for an image than it is to get down and dirty and do actual WORK on yourself. It is hard for me to remember that EVERYONE, even the gorgeous girls I strive to emulate, struggles with self-esteem issues. Lately I have been forcing myself to make connections- to smile even when snubbed, to dance with people I've never met, and to place myself in a position of acceptance rather than continue to dwell in negative judgment land. I can't offer any solutions on how to "fix" this problem as a community, and I certainly can't pretend to have any advice or knowledge to give. All I can do is to work on myself, to get over the insecurity that has me spouting judgments and maintaining distances (real or imagined) that need to be bridged. I feel blessed to have so many close friends- and what I consider to be a real community (or many "sub-communities" as the case may be) in which I interact every weekend. I am grateful to be able to admit to my shortcomings, because somehow airing this (extremely personal) thesis in a public dialogue has made me feel better about something that's been on my mind for so long. I'd also like to say that I think our community is truly beautiful in so many ways- and yes, we may be going through growing pains but keeping the dialogue open and examining ourselves, even when it's difficult as hell, will eventually help us cross the boundaries that divide. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 6:44 PM
well said Kyle!!!
i 100% agree. i have my own version of response, but damn, kyle said it well. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 6:53 PM
ok
someone pointed me to this thread & i wasn't going to even comment until someone else called out the "jeans & hoodies crew".....
now, i'm not sure if that's even a crew per se. and if it is a crew then it has to be THE most diverse & socially accepting one out there...... i mean, come on we got the unibomber, kanye west, half the members of broken social scene......... anyway, just thought i'd add that although i find this debate to be kind of boring, i recognize that it is helping some of yall talk through your insecurities at being part of the UPPER//MIDDLE CLASS.... thanks. that means all of you. we all have families too. nothing's wrong with having money - it can actually do a lot of good in the world. here's what i suggest: a. get rid of any&all concepts & categories you use to put other human beings in a box..... you may THINK it helps you understand another person without "spending" the energy to get to know them, but it will only confuse you and others..... b. throw out your judgments.... unless you are an actual judge. this kind of goes along with suggestion a. c. do your best! in all facets of life, your work, your family relations, how you deal with "random" people on the street, etc. d. don't feel guilty..... yes the world is fucked up, yes we are all complicit. guilt however is not a productive emotion..... "Nothing is more bourgeois than being afraid to look bourgeois." -andy muthafuckin warhol. thank you! |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 6:56 PM
oh wait
except for "tribedustrial."
let's keep that one :) |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 7:39 PM
You're not the only one
It's my biggest problem with San Francisco - 'Elitist hippies' and the like.
Please come to my party - we're elitist and we don't pretend like we're not! ;p |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 7:40 PM
freedom of mind is sexy
this reply got a bit long so i've actually posted on my own blog. feel free to respond there or here. it's at: people.tribe.net/wtsn/blog...c29022886fthanks for the thoughts, s. it's an important topic. and worth nurturing active awareness towards. ... there is fortunately a somewhat effective antidote to escaping the social elitism that you describe, stephen. it's something which will do wonders to clear up more than just this societal level symptom and something which i think is available to us all if we want it. here are some goals you've hit upon in this post which i believe that most of us have in our lives: *a sense of appreciation from others. *a sense of respect from others. *freedom from being judged negatively. *freedom from judging. and, at least in my mind, this is the greatest obstacle to acheiving all of these goals simultaneously: in order to be appreciated and respected, we feel pressure to conform to what we perceive as a collectively valued appearance and behaviour. within our culture(s) and -- in my experience -- most culture, that behavior includes judgement. you judge as an act of participating in a protocol, because those who demand your respect judge you and others. you also judge because by emphasizing someones faults tips the respect game in your favor. judge them (and gain third parties' concurrences) before they can judge you. so in order to achieve the first two points above we are basically pushed toward violating the the second two. according to my observations, the first two goals will win out most of the time. we continue to seek respect and appreciation by the means presented to us, at the expense of participating in the judgement game. an important question emerges: is there a way to avoid receiving and giving judgement while still eliciting respect/appreciation? i think there is: cultivate independence. that is in the sense of "the freedom from being conditioned by your environment". this is a matter of deprioritizing the 3rd goal ("freedom from being judged") in favor of one which is worded quite similarly: "psychological freedom from being judged". this moves the power of the action from externally directed (by someone who is potentially judging you) to internal. of course this is so much easier to say than to do. the habits which keep us locked into being conditioned by our environment are substantial. and self-reinforced by years of repetition. i know well from personal experience. but if we are able to cultivate the will power and awareness within us to make this transition of priorities, half the battle is won. independence feels good. and, as it turns out, is also sexy. a sense of independence is a catalyst for increased self esteem. self esteem leads to confidence and that attractive glow we all seek. this is also a self-reinforcing mode of being and i believe there's probably a tipping point at which it becomes more natural to feel independent and largely refrain from judgement than to default toward the norm. i'd like to write more on this when i have more time. i see this as an extremely significant topic with many intricately related and subtle phenomena (society and mind are complex!). accordingly, cultivation of independence has become one of my most important personal projects over the last couple of years. before this gets to long, i want to close with just one proactive observation: the single best thing i've found to cultivate independence is a dedicated and regular practice of mindfulness meditation. meditation breeds awareness and peels away susceptibility to conditioning. i encourage everyone to taste it... |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 7:43 PM
culture is a form of differentiation...
i agree that different sub-groups (or cliques if you prefer) exist within the scene, and I'd like to speak to that before talking about your perceptions of classism.
i belong to a number of crews through association and action. when i arrive at a party, i'm most likely to check in with my primary sub-group (visionary artists). not only do I generally camp with them, but i'll often find myself gravitating back towards them throughout the party. this action isn't based on a desire to create a clique of visionary artists. through the building friendships with individuals who like to create visual madness, a clique has been born. this community, while generally welcoming, isn't all inclusive. it can't be. i can't recreate years of shared experience, vision, and goals with someone i've only briefly connected with and who doesn't share the common experience of creation. the group is amorphous and composed of individual relationships... someone new to me could be (and likely is) well known to many other 'members.' am i guilty of something for the establishment and continuation of relationships of people a common interest in visionary art? Because I see a significant parallel between this situation and the 'clique' of feather and leather. Every social group is made up of individual relationships, relationships that take trust and time and care to establish, nurture and maintain. feather and leather is an easily identifiable one because the root of the common interest is costumery and adding an element of mysticism & beauty to the dance floor and the event. So I'm not at all surprised when the people that spend all of this time and effort creating a common myth end up spending a lot of time together, potentially at the exclusion of interactions with others. I do the same with my relations. I'd be surprised if your actions were any different. when a social dynamic is based around physical appearances such as costumes or feathers, and let's face it, it's hard to connect on a philosophical level on the dance floor so physical enhancement is appropriate in that context, then there's a certain amount of buy in that needs to take place before you're welcomed and accepted as part of the group. this is not really that different from any social scene; if you wanted to be accepted into the visionary art realms you'd have to show your interest is more than passing by investing time and energy creating a piece of art. if you don't want to invest time and money in that then you definitely don't have to. and as a 'member' of the scene i'll still happily hang out with you in the gallery and discuss art, but i'm unlikely to invite you to come visit for a weekend to create a collaborative piece together. inclusivity doesn't necessarily require meeting the dress code, but i would suspect that the reason why heavily costumed people tend to cluster into the same zone on the dance floor is because they're able to easily identify the others within their group who resonate with a similar value system and put a similar importance on mysticism and costumery. i know wearing a tutu definitely works that way, and there's really nothing exclusive about that crew; kelsey has lent out tutus at parties to people she doesn't yet know, knowing that their interest in rocking the ruffles says something about them, and if they decide they want to 'buy in' the ruffles rarely cost as much as a pair of jeans. The first time I met her I didn't know the scoop, and I tentitively hung around the pile as the rest of the crew dug in. Before I knew it I was being patted on my bum with a 'where's your ruffles cutie?' and now i'm an addict. I had to show an interest in being a part of the ruffalistas by putting on a tutu, but as soon as I did I was approached by all sorts of folk, tutu'd and not who associated a particular set of values with my appearance. I can't imagine it would be any different if I were to dedicate time and money to creating some amazing costumes or, for that matter, if i were to show up wearing a chicken suit. people are going to make assumptions about you based on your appearance often enough because they have nothing else to go on. and you can bet that if i'm rockin the chicken suit and someone else shows up on the dance floor wearing a giant panda costume that we'll gravitate towards each other. I don't know if that answers any of your questions or allays any of your fears of being excluded. if some particular look or aspect of fashion is important to you then explore it and rock it. if you're not at all interested, then don't be surprised that people who are quote interested don't immediately (or potentially ever) resonate with you and take the time to get to know you. your claims of classism are interesting, and not without merit with respect to the fact that different classes, or economic realities, do exist, and that people within given classes tend to hang out together. again I can't help but feel that this stems directly from common interests and shared experience; when you have the capital to travel and encounter others in a similar situation as you do so the shared experiences strengthen your individual relationships with those people. yes, people can and often do get caught up in trying to live beyond their means. someone will always have more money than you. many have a lot less. i can't deny that the rich set the standard for culture by spending money on art and designer clothing. They're both luxury items. Many members of our subculture, myself included, are struggling to make a living as artists and designers, and without wealthy patrons we'd starve. This is in many ways our fault for choosing professions that are based on luxury items, but I'm not really sure what you're getting at when you point out that the wealthy can afford art and new clothing while others can't. that's as true outside of our little subcultural pocket as it is within. Work on your relationship with individuals, and spend time with those you resonate with. That's not going to be everyone. And that's a good thing. If we all resonated with each other entirely we'd be living in a monoculture where everyone dresses and acts the same way. I hope you and the others who've expressed their concerns can find some peace in this matter. If someone (or a group of someones) is of particular interest to you then make the effort to try and resonate with them. invite them over for tea. bring them fruit or water on the dance floor. ask them to go for a walk. most of the snobbery I've encountered turned out to be either shyness, and that one's a lot more common than you think, or someone who was genuinely to busy to take on new energy without knowing what I brought to the relationship, which i fully honour and understand. bless even |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 7:43 PM
hmm
wowee. i think kyle hit the nail on the head...but i'll say this anyways...
being one who inhabits the dark and heavy psytrance scene, it is a curious thing indeed to hear the jaded developments in breaks land. and stephen, when i saw you for a moment, that's how you seemed to me: jaded. very. i definitely went to symbiosis, in part, to go see the beautiful people show, and have a musical excursion...and was thoroughly satisfied. but as much as i can get down to breaks, ever since moving to the bay area four years ago, it has always felt like a scene with more concern for coolness and appearances than i could muster up and actually be a part of. likewise, it felt like a scene with strong and tight knit...but impenetrable...communities (no doubt a feeling contributed to by my own head bits). nevertheless...i did not encounter any snubbery or snobbery in my direction due to my lack of accessories at symbiosis...but perhaps i did not apporach the most elaborately accessorized beauties..or perhaps i was not in a state of mind that was itching to perceive it. i'm definitely tend towards the quiet and untrusting...but actually felt symbiosis to be a very open atmosphere. i felt really good there. as a halfway outsider, i really enjoyed the pageantry at symbiosis...and watching the big human show i feel inspired to put a bit more energy into self-expression via clothing and to make more clothing for myself for more honest and interesting self-presentation...though without the $400 pieces of art kind of clothing. as far as the high school atmosphere...it's definitely funny...but there is something kind of charming about the existence of a space where people can indulge in that desire to show their plumage--well...metaphorical plumage...and actual plumage--and be insistent on presenting themselves and being seen...in a context where people are more willing to look openly. with the way western culture really bungled the whole rights of passage thing, i feel like there is a lot of pain and weirdness around never having been presented and seen...so here the folks are...reliving high school dance mindset...with some big aesthetic improvements and adult self-confidence (one tier up the ol spiral)...working on being more human humans...and being in capitalist america this process gets an occasionally nauseating competitive consumerist spin. spooky. but i like to be in this space where i feel like i am given more permission to be a beautiful human and even feel like this beauty is appreciated.... but anyways...there is something that bothers me...and i guess you have already acknowledged your participation in a framework that you disapprove of....but your pronouncements have an air of authority...superiority...a sense of ownership of the scene...and a sense of betrayal of what you think the scene should be. maybe more judgment than i am comfortable hearing. likewise...there is something funny to me about the way you talk about the people who will never climb the social ladder that you see...some of whom "would never make their way up the social ladder into those exclusive circles because of their age, weight and income"...i hear a detached beneficent force speaking about the oppressed. or maybe one of the kind of cool kids wanting to take the geeks under his wing. in any case, not intending to sound too critical, but i felt weird reading that...and i would bot be surprised if i am reading entirely too much into it. i guess i am curious to hear more about how you feel....and how to change that... anyways....it's a big long adventure trying to fix the problems that have afflicted our drama loving self conscious tending towards the hierarchical human communities oh me for time immemorial...especially in our strange and psychedelic bay area which seems to magnify the business even more...it's nice to hear these things inspiring so much dialogue...also nice sometimes to not take our theoretically fun times tooo seriously....yes? |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 7:56 PM
In fact, Stephen...
So sick I was of this particular niche of human being, I had to move to LA in order to seek out authentic people - isn't that ironic? If you read my blog around the end of July/beginning of August, you'll see. But I didn't have a name for it. And using the scene as a status symbol. I didn't know that Burning Man was cotillion. And I was hella confused, because I'd meet these people, and they would pretend like they were kind and wear the uniform of an alternative lifestyle. But really, they haven't put their varsity football attitudes down. They're the elite, always have been the elite and don't have any real reason to be compassionate. But oh wait - they live in San Francisco and go to Burning Man. That makes it okay, assuages the guilt.
Of course I know a few very very (incredibly) wonderful people who have trust funds and wear that godawful feathers and leather get-up. But overall, that niche of the scene is rife with hypocrisy. And I'm done with it and San Francisco and its 'scene'. ...until the venture capitalists grabbed me and made me start throwing raves for them. The ironic thing, Stephen (well, one of them) - in relation to the topic - is that the most successful people in the world are also the most sincere, kind and reliable. Don't be a flake, don't fuck people over. That way you'll rise to the top, naturally, kind of like cream. So if you want to see your scene flounder and fail, you can continue to ignore the wolves among the sheep who subscribe to a derivative notion of what is cool because they can't really think for themselves - or those who claim to be so damn original that they strive to look and act like everyone else. And you keep on listening to tired old 'glitch' ('You were a glitch DJ in 2001? Did you invent it or what?' 'Um, it's called Aphex Twin...really...'). Or not. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:05 PM
Hold on, let me finish this thought
...of course there will always be a strata of snobs and nouveaux riche striving to make it to the top. But they only act that way because they can only ever be second-best. Those who naturally rise to the top are very good people. It's unfair to confuse them with the jackals and groupies who are always biting at their heels.
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:24 PM
But don't hold it against them!
The thing about this elite that everyone's complaining about - the thing that's so utterly transparent - is that these kids were never 'cool'. If they had spent any amount of their life being like that, they'd have stopped long ago. In fact, they're all nerds (unless they're 17 years old) - programmers and the like - with this terribly misguided notion of what it means to be 'cool'. They're so insecure about being cool that they've got to pimp it like it's Homecoming. Don't be angry with them - just sit back and laugh. They're all very laughable. And just because they don't want to hang out with you because they're too myopic to see beyond your wardrobe doesn't mean you should be upset. I mean, why the hell would you want to hang out with such socially dyfunctional fashion victims anyway? Right?
I have to admit, if the guy I've been seeing were just a couple years younger, he'd be part of this scene, too. But lucky for him - and for me -he's been too busy with school and I caught him just before he got out, before he could make things any worse - before he could get any nerdier! :p They're all just s bunch of dorks who are really too old to be nerds. Kinda like chicken pox, it gets deadlier as you get older - the insecurities more ingrained and deeper-rooted. So next time you're at a party and the Lame Brigade walks in and pretends like they don't know you, just sit back and watch the Reality Show - which is 30 year-olds acting like middle-schoolers - and have a good laugh! |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:30 PM
Magnetic mirror - Kin 119
Just wanted you all to know that today is Magnetic Mirror in the Dreamspell Tzolkin. That is totally what is happening today. Power to all of you that have reflected your essence on such a day of power:
Today's energy: I Polarize in order to Catalyse Stabilzing Energy I seal the Matrix of Self-generation With the Lunar tone of Challenge I am guided by the power of Magic Check it out - www.13moon.com,. www.tortuga.com It's all happening in perfect harmony and we will process and come together soon to become a true community of light and love. Time to move beyond ego to oneness and love - it's all good. In Lak'ech, Blessed be, Kate. or Katjamama. |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:37 PM
welcome to the microcosmos
Jesus christ, this thread has so much bullshit in it, it's making my head spin.
The fact that any of us are even ON TRIBE.NET and have time to read this is a virtual admission that we are in the fucking upper eschelon of society. If you don't agree with me, then you're either the tiny minority or you're in complete denial. The lower class people who have access to a computer and the internet use MYSPACE. But there are a lot of people I see around my city who are illegally working 2 full time jobs just to barely eat a hungry man dinner two times a day. And the music they might choose to listen to when they get a holiday is viewed by a lot of us as not being "conscious". If you are even pretending to go on here, and type about how "maybe it's not really about class" or "I don't see much class influence going on" you're living in a protected dream world. Does anybody ever see any homeless people at our parties? I don't, because they don't have any money. And for this reason are a lower class of human to all of us. Even if they could sneak in somehow, or get on the guest list, I bet we'd all shy away from them and snicker about them to our friends and probably find a way to get them kicked out. The truth of this matter is- if we want to talk about the "class system" within our community, then we're talking about the class system within about a 1% microsect of society. the community that goes to our music events is extremely small and highly representative of a class in itself. And it's very important for me to point out that False Profit has *epitomized elitism* to me and many people I know, despite the shining, respectful relationships I have with some of that camp. Just had to call that one out- PLEASE don't take it personally because it's not. Just speaking from my experience in this "scene"- this scene that makes up a very microscopic fragment of our society. |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:50 PM
love
Perhaps I have a low opinion of people. I'll start with that. And I don't mean people in our scene or any scene, I mean people. Fundamentally, I think that people, despite our many frequent glimmers of generosity, caring and openness, are still pack animals. I'm always reminded of that first bit of "2001," with the apes, when I think about this... Basically I think it always boils down to "us vs. them" on some level, and that has many manifestations.
I think one such manifestation we're all probably pretty familiar with is the junior high / high school social hierarchy. Nearly every high school has some permutation of the jocks, nerds, preppies, townies and whatever else, not to mention race and religion. But specifically, I think a lot of us in the rave community are the ones who were once misfits of one type or another in high school. Dare I say nerds? I was for sure, but I guess I still am. Anyway, I can think of two phenomena that (arguably) arise from that: First, we all get very accustomed to the notion of social strata. Maybe in more homogeneous communities -- closed societies of whatever sort -- this isn't the case quite as much... Or maybe the lines are just drawn differently, I don't know. But for sure, in our highly heterogeneous urban world, there are all kinds of "buckets" we're sorted into, either by ourselves willingly, or by others, and we pretty much get used to it and learn to deal with it. The second outcome, I think, is that part of our coping mechanism as individuals subjected to this environment, is to foist the same on others when we feel sufficiently empowered. Many of us who were nerds in high school are now DJs. ... I guess I should pause for a second to say that I do feel a little burned by some of the DJs in our scene. Many I've met over the past year are so are wonderfully friendly and open, and others strike me as possessing an attitude of "I have enough friends, who the hell are you?" This is not to say they're bad people, by any stretch of the imagination, but I definitely feel I'm on the wrong end of an awkward social disparity in my interactions with people sometimes. So this is just to acknowledge that I have a definite bias here. Well, okay. I guess that pretty much sums up my feelings about the situation, in a nutshell. These "late bloomers" have bloomed, some more than others, and it is so important to our fragile self images to make sure everybody around us knows just how much we've bloomed. It takes a very strong individual to simply internalize the idea that "I'm good enough" without needing to impress it upon others, and I think that strength -- or emotional maturity, or whatever you want to call it -- is what's required to really be warm around people who aren't as beautiful, rich or talented as you. Getting back to my original point: I think that's a lot to ask. Apes will be apes, and people will too. Perhaps I have a low opinion of people, but what we're looking at now isn't something I'd think of as "unexpected." You put enough people together and -- without ascribing any judgment to it -- some will naturally fare better than others. Our peacocks in 2007 are no different from the Ivy League eating clubs of 1807, at least if you squint hard enough. In our push to form societies, as you wrote, that don't fall prey to "typical values," we display both the best and the worst of our human nature all the same. So simply put, I agree with pretty much all that you wrote, and along with everybody else, I applaud your strength and initiative in writing it. Dialogue in a community, I have to believe, is a good thing. But I personally don't have high hopes of change. I have always believed that the only positive impact most people can ever hope to have on the world, in our lifetimes, is the impact we have on the people closest to us. To reiterate, I think only our very closest friends are the ones who we can ever hope to touch. And the only way I think we can touch our friends is through a devoted introspection, being the best and strongest we can be for ourselves as individuals. That's not to say that nailing your 95 theses to a door every once in a while can't have a dramatically positive effect, but I think more frequently we simply have to do good for ourselves and hope -- against all odds -- that good permeates the consciousness of those around us. I don't want to end this reply on a gloomy note, and I'm certainly not of the belief that we should make do with what we've got. I don't agree with those who argue we're better off, in terms of openness and all that, than we would be in mainstream society. Of course we've built a better community for ourselves (and I still struggle with my definition of "community"... a whole other conversation) -- but that doesn't mean it's "good" in absolute terms, just "better" relative to the alternative. So although I'm just about the furthest a person could ever get from religion, I will end with this: God is love, and he who dwells in love dwells in God, and God dwells in him. (1 John 4:16) |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 9:00 PM
my main critique
of this phenomenon, is that it makes the goal of these festivals harder to obtain, mainly being: ego dissolution through trance inducing music + altered states. I think what were trying to do when getting "spongled" is to shake everything off and return to the source so that we can emerge fresh to create more inspiring organic forms of life expression. Its an ancient ritual re-incarnated with the use of modern technology, and the gathering of the tribes is a wonderful thing.
But its okay, ego in all its forms still exists in festival land - sometimes even more exaggerated - but the magic can still happen. Feathers and leather can boogie down with tube socks + quicksilver T-shirt in the same enchanted forest under the same blue sky. |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 9:34 PM
Thank you Dr. Trix, et al.
I appreciate the thought and time that's going into this thread, and have just a little to add...
So much 'sexy' so little sex. I mean, in real life, peacocks actually do it every once in a while. Just saying. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled... |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 9:54 PM
Ok, this response has been huge and there is no way i can retort, comment or clarify everything that has been stated or asked. I must say that some of these replies feel off subject, which I’ll try and rein back in here. the point of the post gets lost as we begin to speak tangentially and as a result arguments are made not pertaining to my point and self defensiveness takes over in areas that i am not making accusations. And then my point is lost.
So first, I would like to clarify when I said in my follow up post that I have seen no “admission”, I was speaking of admission of participation in a system that is both classist and values vanity, which creates barriers for people to move in and out of social classes. And admission would look something like “yeah, I participate in this scene and see how my participation is a reflection and propagation of the classism and vain ideals that are the ideals of this scene." In my post I try and point out that there has been a noticeable trend in the rave scene with growth of this breaks/glitch/hop hop phenomenon. I explain how my experiences have led to me becoming “deeply aware of a shift away from these old raver values, into a vanity and classism .” I am unclear if anyone who has posted disagrees with this statement with regards to vanity. we'll take on the disagreements with classism in a moment when i clarify what i meant. I have read a variety of explanations of why this trend has occurred and some justifications of it being ok (which I can accept, although I find it strange to support classism or vanity), but I’m unsure if anyone has come out and disagreed that this has occurred. To those who have defended the rights of people to form cliques, my arguments do not try and examine the creation of cliques and their value. friends are good to have. friend groups are great to have. however, my aim to critique the relative impermeability of cliques in this scene as compared to others - “Trancers, whether they dress in those fluorescent Star Trek outfits, wear tie-dye, regular street clothes or some ridiculous costume, smile at each other and dance with each other. There is no pecking order that you must work your way up to be welcomed into their stomping ground. Hell, you can even look like a breaks or hip hop kid and they are welcoming.” In my post I state that the values of the scene come down from the upper social classes in the scene. Let me try and clarify by explaining what I mean by classism and distinguish economic class and social class. let's start by talking about economic classism. In a society those with the most money (and therefore power) have the most flexibility and opportunity in the system to participate in the society in whatever way they choose. Its called privilege. Those with less $s have less flexibility and opportunity. Those that are less wealthy either have to scrape buy in order to participate in a higher class (perhaps stretching beyond their comfort or means) or live their life in a lower class. When the culture is set up to admire the “beautiful people from the future” then those with less flexibility and opportunity to make oneself look like a beautiful person from the future suffer to a greater degree to mimic those ideals (which I call vanity) than those with greater $s. On the flip side, not all wealthy people choose to appear as though they are in the upper class (chrisian slater wearing torn jeans and a hoodie all the time is my favorite image). However, that doesn't make those people not of the upper economic class. It is important to distinguish the ideas of social class and economic class. I believe those in upper economic classes have this flexibility or opportunity to choose their social class based on their wealth as I have described above. Furthermore, I think there are social classes in this scene that are are semi-independent from these economic classes (same argument). These social classes are valued based on their proximity to the ideal value (vanity) of the culture. The most beautiful people from the furthest into the future are the most revered because they fit the ideal values of the community. Simply, they are the cool kids, with the most access to goods and services through their social capital stemming from being futuristic and beautiful. In summary, beautiful people from the future get more positive attention from everyone in the community in some form or another (until now...heh) Also, I’d like to reinforce this part of my argument: “I believe more often than not that we are working so hard at maintaining our status (self worth) in a certain class, by reinforcing the connections with those in our class, or trying to make connections with those in higher classes, that we find ourselves without time or energy for those whose appearance is of a lower social class.” I think that one of the values of this subculture is vanity. I believe the result of that is that people feel safer with those that look more like them. I would distinguish this from those who *are* more like them. the ability or willingness to wear trendy clothes, whether they are creative or not, in my belief does not show who that person is. I personally feel safest with those who are willing to smile at me or look me in the eyes when we’re in the same room. I feel welcome when that happens. Especially if we’re both there to enjoy the same music. I find it strange that people can feel safer based on people having similar body image or the same style. Another thing I’d like to emphasize is that a large amount of time and energy was spent in my writing the original post including myself as one of those who not only participates in this classist system, but judges people based on their appearances. I am less likely to look into someone’s eyes and smile, let alone dance with them if their style or body image is drastically different than my social class (further than the community ideal value). No matter how many t-shirts and torn cut off pants I wear, I’m still participating in a classist culture which judges based on appearance. And another thing, let it be known that False Profit, the crew I am a part of has been complicit in this classist-vanity trend for years. Yeah, we do it. How can we not. Our values stem from the same source as the rest of y'all's. Many of those that have been rejected by our crew, because they weren’t cool enough have been brave enough to write me privately in appreciation of both calling myself out on this behavior and my own community, which I helped form and still hold dear to my heart. So, let’s get back on track. This isn’t about dissecting why people are friends. It isn’t about how we find people we trust. I’m not talking about being best friends with everyone that we meet. I’m not talking about how people should dress. I’m not talking about our overall privilege compared to the rest of the world. I’m not blaming the trustifarian peacock personally for any of the classism or vanity that has pervaded our subculture. This is a phenomenon that exists beyond any person individually, but at the same time, each one of us participates in this system. I’m simply trying to point out that one of the most prominent values of this subculture is vanity. We value our appearance and that is how we divide into groups. Those who are the most beautiful people from the future are at the top of the social strata, and because being a beautiful person from the future is a ideal - we all want to be more like that, we almost can't help it. the meme has been set. In addition, because of these values, we tend associate ourselves more with beautiful people from the future and distance ourselves from ugly people from the past. This ensures our upward (or at least stable) social status. Those who have the most wealth (flexibility, opportunity and power) have privilege and are able to choose what social status group they want to be a part of with less financial stress than those who don’t have the same financial means. ok, i'd like to hear more thoughts on these clarifications. let me know if there's anything pertinent that i missed. |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 10:00 PM
more thoughts on this later, and I haven't read the entire post, let alone everyone's reply, but I'm surprised it took 45 posts for someone (Comma) to point out the obvious: "False Profit has *epitomized elitism* to me and many people I know, despite the shining, respectful relationships I have with some of that camp." Now I know the good Doctor is a smart man. And I know this thought must have occurred to him before posting this. Hmmmmmmm . . .
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 10:03 PM
man, i haven't written a single word on tribe since.....
but damn. way to open it up stephen.
and kyle, nice one bro. you wrapped it up in a nice little bow. yeah, there's a bit of that... er, all of that... * but i've met those people, and had a blast with them. (which people? all of them *) this scene, with all of its little sub-sub-sub-"scenes" (hee hee!) is the most amazing collection of human interactions that i've had the pleasure of seeing in action. there's a lot of magic in our little circle. the "elite"? which ones are those? coz they all seem about the same to me. a bunch of freaks, doing freaky shit in freaky ways. and we're all looking at each other and having conversations like this one. awesome. * xo! |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 10:27 PM
okay, i just want to point out that there are a number of people on this thread who are stepping out of their comfort zones and making themselves vulnerable. there's a wealth of honesty here, with people calling themselves out on how they are complicit in this system, and also testifying that yes, they too have felt this elitism/classism directed at them and it's made them feel pretty damn uncomfortable. thank you cerrithwen, cat, comma, and i know there are others of you on this 50+ thread. that takes an immense amount of courage and presence, and i appreciate it. i also want to point out that if other people besides trix are feeling these barriers (and i know even more people are than on this thread, because i've gotten into private IM and email conversations about this today as well), something is up, something is there, this isn't just smoke and mirrors. so as i see people's defensiveness on the rise in response to his post, i'd love to ask everyone to also respect those people who *are* feeling this way and not just tell us that it's in our heads, because well, it seems like that's what's being said at times. something along the lines of: if you feel that this is happening, it's because you're making it happen in your head and that's just how you're dividing everyone, so just let it go and it won't exist. well, that's kind of like saying: racism only exists if you think it does, so just don't recognize it and it won't be in your reality. i don't really need to lay out how problematic this line of thinking is. i think this conversation is a crucial opportunity to open up and examine each of our own complicity in elitism, and that by opening up our own experiences and being vulnerable, we can have that much more compassion and creative thinking around the issue as a whole. and really, if we can do this in the lower stakes of the "scene", think how better prepared, effective, and ready we will be to create change in the larger world. .... also, alxndr, i totally called FP out in my first response... ;) |
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 11:27 PM
I had a clear and sudden realization this year out at Symbiosis, that we are all a part of a beautiful struggle that has been traversing the generations of the art/music scene and has been going on for thousands of years (at least). It probably first took a modern, familiar shape in the first renaissance period. I believe this struggle is between the artists, and the investors.
I believe we are in the middle of a new rennaisance right now, which most people either do not notice or they take for granted. A time period that may not be noticed for this characteristic for many years to come. I think this is because it takes the shape of a renaissance none of us have ever known. I believe that maybe because of the intense focus on the importance of art and music in our scene today, and the praise that a musician or an artist recieves from this, that some people feel that they are left in the shadows. In order to compensate for this shadow, they act out in different ways. Some of the results of this, I believe, are what causes the outside perceptions of most of what everyone is talking about in this blog. Sometimes I feel that the succeeding artists and musicians in our scene are so focused on succeeding, that they lack the focus to push their energy to others trying to accomplish the same things. I feel that there are aspiring artists/musicians who get trapped in a perpetual state of trying to run with the pack, but for whatever reason, are unable to break through that door. 3 people I knew committed suicide this year. When I look to what these 3 people had in common, I find that these 3 people were all aspiring artists/musicians, who a lot of people had no clue that would be their ultimate choice.While there were many reasons affecting their decision, I believe that ultimately, all felt left out. I think one of the most important lessons in my life right now, is realizing that everyone is on their own trip. They are welcome in "my world" at any time, as long as they don't abuse their invitation by causing uneccessary grief towards me. But I say "they are on their own trip" because it helps me to realize, that in the "now", if I feel unwelcomed by someone, or snubbed, they are probably going through something personal. I'm confident enough in myself to know, that it's okay if I don't connect with them in this instance, because I will always be open to it later. And in the end, if we don't connect, we don't connect. |
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Unsu...
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Fri, September 28, 2007 - 11:34 PM
I'll be happy to chat about this with you in person. One questions is: So what? To purposefully exaggerate, why do you care that a bunch of stuck up assholes won't talk to you because you're not wearing leather accessories? Let them cream in their own vanity hell.
I'm not sure there is a problem really. My experience is that the distribution of intellect/attitude/friendliness/openness among the Feathers and Leather crowd roughly mirrors the distribution of intellect/attitude/friendliness/openness in the rest of the world. They just happen to dress differently. So what? |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 12:16 AM
a pause to appreciate...
i'd just like to remind everyone (or inform the west coast natives that might not know) what a privilege we all have living in one another's' company in the bay area. i spent 6 years in boston and the rest of my life (with a few minor exceptions) in the south. believe me when i say both of those regions have far stricter social rules and far less flexible support for those who seek their own paths. in fact when i'm asked about living in the bay area this is generally the first thing i talk about. "boston has creative communities and subcultures", i tell them, " but typically you succeed in those communities to the degree you are participating in what has already been deemed cool, advanced or otherwise of value." the bay area, i quickly realized, often supports those who magnetize to and track toward their own north poles. there's practically a subculture for any combination of wierd ideas you can think of. and if your kombucha eating robot yarn spinning clothes monster creation passions don't have a foundation here, people will still be pretty damn excited to support you on that vector. and not only on the surface ... people actually come out to events and support. this is probably the biggest reason san francisco is my favorite city in the world. there's just so much f***ing love for you, come as you are...
that said we're definitely not immune to the wider cultural negativity and exclusion that comes with a societal value system. and just because we're pretty cream of the crop in SF/BA doesn't mean we can't do better. in fact i think it means we're the ones who can and have a mission do better. to look back at your picture here of a capitalist fueled structure, let's take a page from the opposite book of Marx: "From each according to his abilities ..." we are able and if this thread is any indication, we're also interested. the question becomes, how do we stay on top of this? how do we keep self aware as a culture? is there an acceptable way to keep reminding one another? (or is that uncool? :) ) in my life i've seen a continual evolution of cultures that surround me. from really fucking mean selfish kids in elementary school. to ridiculous politics and coolness cliques in middle school. to slightly more complex ridiculous politics in high school. to fairly reasonable people in college. to pretty awesome people in SF. part of this is myself growing and seeking. but i also have hope that the culture around me is growing up and losing ego attachment too. if we maintain and cultivate awareness i think that will happen. i'll do what i can to keep you (plural) aware. please return the favor... |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 12:18 AM
Well if they really were from the future...
...they wouldn't be listening to breaks, now would they? :p
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 6:18 AM
spent the last couple hours reading this blog/thread and compelled to share
and it's wonderful that you are speaking out about a subject that has been in many people's thoughts...
First, let me get something off my chest... sorry to use your blog for this Stephen. What I've come to realize is that 'it's' not all about the music. Coming from me, this statement might shock you if you know me at all. I've dedicated so much of my life to this intangible occurrence of vibration, that its even difficult to admit. I've spent much of my life being a musical snob, and I'm sick of it. Music is a vehicle like so many other things. I won't claim to truly know what 'it's' all about, but I've been getting alot of clues lately that point toward the magical concept we've come to know as experience. Anyways, back on subject. My experience (word of the day, kids) walking through the 'tribal bazar' at symbiosis was interesting to me in that I found myself appreciating the clothing (often high quality, attention to detail, interesting cuts and seams, creativity... etc) as the 'art' that it is but not being able to afford any of it. I found it odd that at this lifestyle event, I felt like I was walking through some sort of divine shopping mall, where I could obtain such extravagant and unusual items in such a standard way. It didn't feel right to me, that is -divine- i should say, to obtain such beautiful things by simply coughing up a few hundred dollars (or more) cash. Most of my current favorite clothing items were cheaply stumbled upon, or created by a friend which is a whole subject in it's self. Even if I had the cash, I almost felt like it was cheating to just get outfitted like that. I noted to a friend later that night how it was interesting in this 'sustainability' minded event how fashion and cash, yes - US currency from the ominous federal reserve - played such a large roll throughout the weekend. Even a slice of pizza was 5 bucks. Granted, I afforded myself a slice, and it was good... but why not help participants make their own pizza? Why not organize leather working classes? Maybe I just don't have enough to offer... perhaps if I had a more ideal physical appearance or a large following, I would be gifted these elite artistic treasures? Who knows? I also went to visit a friend at her camp, but was told I wasn't allowed in by security because it was, get this "artist camping only". If only I was an artist! More like if only I had brought my kief with me... or better yet , cold hard cash, maybe I could have persuaded him to let me in? A friend later informed me that he was given a 'healer' badge from someone, which allowed him access to the super nice camping spots. Maybe 'it's' not all about experience... maybe 'it's' all about who you know. Stay with me, I swear I'm not getting off subject... At any rate, this is a prime example of social hierarchy that is woven into our lives. It is unavoidable. We scratch each other's backs. We have sex. We get promoted. We fight about who's backs we're scratching and who we're having sex with and bitch if we don't get promoted. Generally speaking, your cool because someone who matters thinks your cool, so eventually you might matter too and get to cast your vote in the ultimate universe popularity contest. Oh, and it helps if your hot. Isn't that great? So is life... or is it? Well, that was one hell of a pessimistic rant... I'm tired and going to sleep now. I will leave on a more positive note by saying I believe there is a way to rise above these almost inevitable shackles of the mind. Thank God, the universe, yourself or whatever for even the most fleeting moments of __LOVE__ you get to experience (*ding ding ding), when all of a sudden none of this bullshit that we're talking about matters one bit. |
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Unsu...
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 8:45 AM
Congratulations for getting revitalizing tribe! I thought we had all left and gone to Facebook.
My two cents:
It's human nature: classism, social roles and memes. We are all trying to do one thing and that is express ourselves as we hunt for universal truths and connect with like mind souls as we do so. The I-5 dance scene is no different from other social structures. We just have a few feathers, few fedoras, hoopers, stil walkers, party throwers, patry goers, and some damn fine music along the way. We could all use with a good laugh at ourselves. I know I need one. Anyone wanna organize a roast? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roast_(comedy) While I have your attention let's talk about some real issues facing our world today. These are the reasons why I dance. Why do you? www.oceana.org/europe/pub...-in-danger/ usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming www.worldhunger.org/ antiwar.com/ |
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Unsu...
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 10:22 AM
Double Order of PLUR For Me, Please
Thanks for that, Arin!
I’m dancing for Gaia also... and for the personal healing, spiritual adventure, and social connections. The art (includes music, ritual, performance, adornments, self-expression, etc.) helps me on my path. In all of my work and play, i encounter the classism, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. that our sick culture teaches. Conversations like this one are much needed reminders that i am a product of this twisted human experiment and i must do my work to recognize and evolve away from these “isms” in myself. In my ongoing journey towards humility and grace, i pause and re-member the parts of me that i am nurturing and release those which do not serve. I challenge myself to honor and connect with people outside of my comfort zones (whether it’s at a party or on the street). I can create pathways where barriers once stood. I challenge myself to look inside to see my own judgments, and tap into the compassion within myself that can drive unconditional love. This is my true power in a world of so many false profits. Namaste, munko |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 11:16 AM
its cute how our cliques are defined my the music stage we choose to stand around
what about klezmer, and classical? i like those, i must be poor or something haha! |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 12:19 PM
trying to boil it down once again...
first, i would like to say the reason i think this all is so important is because we *are* so privileged compared to the rest of the world, which gives us power and opportunity to so many things that can help the world face all of the terrible challenges that it is facing. however, internally as a scene, if we support a classist system that values vanity over depth, we create barriers to uniting a group of people comprised of the most creative, beautiful, caring and inspiring humans that fall under our greater privileged sphere and thus limit the work we can do to heal humanity, planet, country. And most of our friendships begin at events in the scene and continue to evolve and deepen as a result of the happenings of the scene. Therefore, I say this does matter on all levels...
ok, trying to boil my points down a little bit. 1) is looking "hot" a primary value of this scene? 2) does looking "hot" (as defined by appearance - age, body type and dress) give one more access and power in this scene? 3) does helping people look "hot" and creating opportunity for people to look "hot" give one more access and power in this scene? 4) does having more money make it easier for one to look "hot"? 5) have you noticed a trend (and i'm sure there are exceptions) that the "hotter" the person (which i would argue ends up correlating with social status or popularity, since we try and surround ourselves with as many hot people as possible) the less open they are to everyone who walks by, but in contrast the less hot people are more open (especially to the hot ones)? [note: This disregards including resentment for being ignored for being less "hot" or "lower class" as a reason to be closed off to hot people (because i don't believe in reverse classism just like i don't believe in reverse racism). if you say no to any of these questions, that's the dialogue i'm interested in exploring. if you say yes, thanks for supporting the views expressed in my essay that so many of us in this scene are feeling from others and ourselves. |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 12:47 PM
its interesting that with all the uber-cool whateva that people seem to forget how to dance - or a least become so image-conscious that they dare not release into truly unique self-expression. that is why i've found myself again and again drawn back to the trance scene even though only about 0.3% of that music really excites me. (and let me tell you that it is bloody hard to make it as an idm dj in the trance scene...) i've been wanting to head down to the southern west coast to engage with that music in particular and it's good to be forewarned that the elitist fashion show is in full effect pretty much everywhere.
most of my judgment is based upon how engaged people seem and whether or not they will make eye contact and smile. my solution has become to dance like one possessed, use my elbows for breathing room, and the devil take anyone that minds... |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 1:57 PM
Classism
Cleaving to Stephen's direction here, I'll fast-forward past all the interesting reflections that come up for me, in order to answer his questions:
Yes, "hotness" is a primary value of this scene. So are musical talent, connections, and good taste. If you think of our scene as trying to differentiate itself from the mainstream values of America, this is not a dimension upon which we are succeeding as a group. Hotness and money are not the only means to access and power in our scene, but they certainly do grease the wheels and it's probably easy to think of examples. I can also think of many counter-examples, and I love all those people for their "freedom of mind" as Watson put it. In the past two years or so, I have been struggling deeply with general questions about class and race. In our scene and in the world, I see not only physical appearances, economic means, and social skills, but also education level and interaction style used as a litmus test. I do it too: If you play your combination of the above elements wrong, I'm not talking to you. That's not very nice, but it's true. And It's very difficult to step away from the decisions I've made about who I associate with and am friends with to really examine the criteria I've used, both consciously and unconsciously. My attitude in the past has been, "If you're intimidated, that's your problem." And I'm not completely ready to let go of that edge, but it's worth looking at and asking how well it serves me and my community. That's just where I'm at. It's your last question, Stephen, that points at our own ability to address whatever we see as problematic in this. We get to choose how open we are to people. For me, it's been useful to try to observe myself, to accept my own varying levels of comfort at talking to someone new, try to be as honest as possible about any trends I notice, and to talk about it with my friends. I'm still not great at reaching across differences or acknowledging a power dynamic when it exists. I'm working on it, and I hope that if people see that they will be willing to work with me. You don't have to talk to me about music or DJs or parties or crews or whatever we have in common. Just be real and I'll try to hear you and do the same. Not everyone in the scene is going to be friends. But we ought to all be able to be friendly and feel safe being ourselves when we're together. |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 2:19 PM
but to add to that
i recognize that i while i was living in the west i was fully integrated into a really amazing group of people - many of whom are very beautiful and make wikid cloths... throwing parties, having private spaces so we could have breathing room... and i know that often i was (am) far too tired and over-stimulated to interact with people outside my 'clique'. this has a great deal to do with comfort levels, safety, and as mentioned before - trust.
it took me about 4 years to integrate into this group of people - many of who are now my closest friends. what i discovered in the process was that - no matter how socially comfortable these people seemed in the party environment with their 'clique' - most of them were shy and awkward and 'strange'. they seemed 'normal' but elitist because they were surrounded by their friends whom they had slowly developed relationships with over the course of many years and parties and felt they had the safe space to come out and interact as their authentic and eccentric selves. and once that safe space has been cultivated it is easy to overlook anyone who is not in with the in... i know this has been a big challenge for me - often feeling like i go to these events to be surrounded by my 'tribe', worn out by interacting with the world at large, and seeking solace and nurturing. the last thing i want to do is reach out and put myself in uncomfortable situations.... my compromise has been to commit to reaching out to a stranger at least just once every time i go to an event - especially towards someone who seems to me to be feeling awkward or uncertain of how welcome they are. being the change eYe wish to be. |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 2:31 PM
thanks
with severe rolling of eyes, i am titling this as the Official Bassnectar Response, LLC All rights reserved. god...there is so much here...too much. lots id like to reiterate, but ill settle for a nice, incomplete but well-intended list: 1. The most interesting thing here to me is the issue of classism. We are all First World Dominators. I got sent to the principle's office in 8th grade for inciting a riot in class becuase i wanted everyone in there to just ADMIT that their wealth and luxury is directly spawned by depriving it from another human. If we all start out 2nd World, with even portions, and a few people steal extra "luxury" (non necessity like free time, gourmet food, nice cars, cell phones, etc...doesnt have to be that specific) then yu push the majority down into the 3rd world. This is a crass summary, but nonethe less, its all said with the opening picture, and i think its the most stirring topic. 2. After getting (grossly?) singled out on here (have some empathy, people...read on with an open mind) id like to point out, that: AS BASSNECTAR, I DO NOT CONDONE OR ENCOURAGE THE USE OF FEATHERS, FEDORA, LEATHER, FASHION, SNOBBERY, VINDICTIVENESS, THIN-NESS, PRETTINESS, OR COOLNESS TO CONNECT WITH ME OR MY MUSIC> Ye who are so quick to associate me with that absolute, hang your heads in shame. If ive ever worn a feather it was forced upon me and i was too polite to take it off, instead suffering silently (or just not caring) and if i ever wore a fedora it was a joke. I have worn shorts and a t shirt, and leg warmer if its cold (thanks, orange) for years. I associate with anyone who approaches me (to a fault, and in direct compromise of a personal life, or a private ability to dance or do as i will) freely. I probably know or converse with more humans than *almost* anyone on this baord (considering i am travelling full time) and i am open to ALL walks of life, all races, colors, body weights, and surface shells. just be careful of boxing people in, having the audacity to cast judgement, dole out labels, and make big blanket statements. many of the statements here felt so flawed and innaccurate, not because of the SPIRIT of their message, but rather the LETTERS of that message... remember how inaccurate most of our projections are, and how LITTLE other people's actions actually have to do with us, when we think the entire world revolves around us. If you feel dissed at a party or excluded, chances are you are either projecting, or you are better off anyway. My intention musically and socially is to connect. I am very happy with the music i channel...i spend a gross amount of time on it, and always strive to take alternative perspectives, and keep an open heart. Before proceeding i want to thank Stephen. Steve, i want to lick your brain, you are such a fuckin solid individual and i like you a LOT. Funny Stephen (of all people) brought this all up about symbiosis.... because ironically, during my set i remember thinking (O i wish the whole False Profit clan was here moshing in the front with me, maybe i should play more 130 bpm) and then as soon as i was done, on Phono's second track, there they were, headed by Stephen in the front. I love the FP massive. And they are a clique. Unless they engage in gross negative gossip behind my back, i feel love and acceptance from the majority of them, but from so many others i hear about what snobs and elitists they are. When I am alone in my studio, or travelling nonstop, and just giving my fucking pure LIFE FORCE to what i believe in, against all odds, i am in touch with the vulnerable fact that i REALLLLY fucking care about people. i hate thinking abot ANYONE suffering physical pain, or even hurt feelings (minus like 5 or 6 humans who i would like to personally torture slowly). I feel such a soft-yet-solid connectedness with the common empathic thread of existence we al share. I get SO uncomfortable with the fact that i am in the COOL KIDS GROUP. Ever since i was young ive been a part of the popular crowd, and i also rock out with the jocks, the geeks, the nerds, the loners, teh theatre kids, the smokers, the principal, my teachers, my neighbors, the homies, the thugs, etc... Its not much different for me now. but how ironic that in 2007, its a hip judgement to cast myself and my music as a top rung of capitialism, when i am such a fucking communist. :) but i cant control that (i do marvel at it though...you people who think that are STRANGE to me...) just because i have hot, sexy, fashionable friends doesnt mean i am a snob, nor does it mean i dont have ugly, ghoulish, heinously fat friends. (and im sure sometimes i am a snob - in that, no, i dont want to talk to you because YES i am enjoying a nice, private 5 minutes for the first time in 3 weeks with 2 people i have known for 8 years, and i just spent the last 3 hours conversing with ROOMFULS of people i dont know, but feel TOTALY open to on a cosmic level and want to share love and respect with) i love ugly, fat people. especially those who DONT wear leather. if i could police and patrol the dancefloor during "a bassnectar set" ooohhh, how conducive i would make it...so suculent and non-invasive, and special, and personally unique to each creature. It would be a realm of inclusion and extreme electric activation, and each one of use would be a spoiled bastard in the upper echelon, but in that moment, i would at least be happy to be cocreating exquisite delight. Having to deal with hams is what life seems to be about quite often. As in life, so on the dancefloor. and i will leave you with this: for over 2 years, i have not watched a SINGLE performance without wishing at least for a part of it, that the performers who are so slender, and stylish and sexy, were actually BIG FAT NAKED PEOPLE, doing the same undulations, the same self-important facial expressions of earnestness, the same spiritual-wrist movements... THAT WOULD BE HILARIOUS> anyways, be less judgemental make less projections call myself out more often :) much love PSPS>.....this kind of dialouge is the SHIT we should have LESS PARTIES and MORE DISCUSSION. LESS SEX, MORE DEBATE LESS DRUGS, MORE CHANGE OF OPINION LESS MUSiC, MORE CONFRONTATION LESS CONFRONTATION, MORE SOLUTIONS LESS FEAR, MORE LOVE LESS STANDARDS, MORE GROWTH Lorin pps...as someone who was EXTREMELY involved in the psy trance scene back in 1995, i find the notion of excluding PsyTrance from the list of elitism, snobbery, fashion, and scenesterism absolutely and TOTALLY hysterical... long live the silly human monkeys. |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 2:40 PM
an admission of complicity; and on the issue of self-reflection
Hi, my name is Logan and I have a confession to make: when I was still a member of False Profit and the breaks scene I was absolutely guilty of judging people based on their social class status. I always viewed the sexy "people from the future" with admiration. I even started wearing eye-liner to parties, no doubt because I saw the "boys-of-the-future" doing it. On the flip side, I also resented them a little because I knew I wouldn't be able to climb the rungs of the social ladder to be able to hang with the cool(er) kids.
But I'm going to turn away from my desires of upward mobility in the breaks social structure. Instead, I'm going to examine my actions and that of my community False Profit. There is no question in my mind that I and every one of my fellow community members exercised our "better-than-thou" attitude more than once. In fact, we did it often. We knew we threw the best parties, attracted the best people, had the best dancers in our ranks, and fancied ourselves a bit smarter than the rest. It's hard to write that sentence, because admitting your complicity in something so blatantly against our Left-coast loftier standards is uncomfortable. But I'd be conveniently omitting the hard truth if I didn't state those things. False Profit and I, nay the entire scene, cared deeply about wanting to be fancier, sexier, smarter, and cooler than others. We always knew there were others who were "cooler" and who inhabited the rungs above us in the ever-elusive quest for breaks-coolness. But we comforted our egos with the knowledge that we were better in other ways. A bit of self-delusion perhaps? Maybe. Maybe a justification for our position in the social structure. Whatever the case, we believed we were "better." And it was that feeling of superiority (even with regards to those who occupied the "sexier/cooler" rungs above us) that held us together. As many newbies popping by our Thursday dinners could tell you, we were an impenetrable group. While individually we were each friendly and welcoming, as a group we were xenophobic and unwelcoming. It wasn't lost on me that I was the only gay guy in FP, that were no African American or Mexican/Latino members, no one was overweight. We too were concerned with and self-defined by looks, race, and a whole host of other superficial measures. I lost count of the number of times that I ran into people on who had been to one of our FP events (dinner, dance party, conference, etc.) who said they felt shunned and unwelcomed by our group. And I own that. It's something I tried to address, but I know I did not do enough to recognize our failing, address our complicity in a socially stratifying and judgmental system, and ultimately make it better. Isn't it part of our human nature to question the system that were are a part of, to examine its benefits and failings, and then to strive to change it for the better? Aren't we trying to evolve, to become better people who are more aware of our surroundings and our actions? If so, the we must be willing to recognize our own own faults, strive to correct them, and grow from what we learn in the process so we don't repeat our mistakes. I fully admit to being complicit in a system and a community that judges others on looks and perceived coolness. And I welcome this chance to examine those shortcomings, learn from them, adjust my behavior however I can so that I can grow from the experience. I appreciate Trix bringing this issue up, and everyone's comments (whether I agree or disagree). Every word is useful in framing the issue and contributes to our quest of better understanding our actions. |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 3:03 PM
Thanks for bringing this up, Stephen. At the very least, it's fun to talk about; at most it is one of the core issues in the human drama.
I want to point out first that we are not unique... this issue is universal and timeless, from the days of Mozart all the way to the 60's hippie movement. I saw a documentary recently on the 60's scene, and the death of that movement was summed up pretty much like this: [The vain, wealthy, fashionable class from L.A., with their ego-reinforcing (rather than consciousness expanding) drugs like cocaine and speed, were the downfall of peace and love.] You have brought up many central reasons that point to "why". I would answer "yes" to most of the questions in your clarification post, except for one, which I want to address: 3) does helping people look "hot" and creating opportunity for people to look "hot" give one more access and power in this scene? On the surface, it may appear so, but I would argue that rather than creating access to power, it simply creates a situation where those that are helping and creating opportunity are meerly being used more vigorously. When that usefulness is gone, the power evaporates. It's a contingent brand of power and access. Those with the real power are still determining your usefulness based on their arbitrary tastes and preferences. Speaking as an artist, I understand the lure of this illusion of power, and I understand the suffering it creates - to be constantly on the watch for what others like and want in the hopes of getting that glimpse of acceptance and tangible reward. It's not a lack of success that drives an artist to despair, it's the recognition that one's own vision and voice has been lost through the unwinnable race to please others. I've seen many artists sink to mediocrity through catering to the vanity of the market. I've seen party promoters go through the same thing - getting a glimpse that they may be falling out of favor, and in reaction, scrambling to please the most powerful (read="hottest") clientele. The end result is more and more mediocrity. I see the problem as being much more psychological and spiritual than political. There's so much pain involved, as is evident in the posts I'm reading. Each individual must be responsible for their own pain. People hurt each other, that's a fact. But you can't control what other people do. Even pointing fingers at the behavior doesn't make it stop. EVEN POINTING A FINGER AT YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR won't necessarily make it stop. And if I could sum up the problem in one word, I wouldn't use classism or elitism...... it would be "Narcissism". There are those that suffer from it directly, by being compelled to gather power through the adoration (or envy) of others. And there are those that suffer from it by enabling, by needing to be needed and wanted by those they adore (or envy). In both cases the root is fear: fear of not being seen, valued, loved. Perhaps the remedy is to deal with the root of the pain itself, the [false] beliefs around where your self-worth comes from, the illusions of deprivation/wealth, the whole us/them, me/you bullshit that drives the whole drama. Ideally, with real understanding of the fact of human nature, we are all lead to forgiveness, acceptance and compassion. "Ideally" being the key word. My own solution has been to opt out. One of the memories I have of last year's Symbiosis and one of the main reasons I wasn't interested in going back was this: "Gee, Vibrata, I was going to buy some of your prints but I spent all my money on clothes!" To me, that sums it up. If I have to cater to vanity and narcissism in order to get a golden ticket to the dancefloor, I'd rather dance at home. It's all about how I feel about myself when the dancing's over and I'm alone in my room. Am I seeing the truth? Am I living with integrity? I don't deny that I've been hurt by others because of this issue and have likely hurt others myself. But let's be honest: fault finding and finger pointing, even (I would say especially) at yourself, doesn't cause change. Change happens. It's inevitable, even predictable if you go by what's happened in the past. The best that you can hope for is that you learn something. |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 5:26 PM
i'm not sure i agree about how you're seeking to boil down this conversation, stephen. you've focused on physical appearance when there is _so_ much more to how people judge one another. here are some examples:
* who you interact with * who approaches and interacts with you * the form of the interactions which take place * who you snub, ignore or dismiss * how you carry that out * what expression you hold on your face * how loud you are * how you dance ... the biggest shame (and annoyance) in my mind with how i've perceived the scene in the US change over the last 10 years is not even that people have become more judgmental based on physical appearance; it's these more complex and subtle politics of social interaction and communication which have emerged. even within a tight community (as long as everyone's calling out FP, i might as well too) social politics can be _so_ overbearing. as i described to a good friend recently: on bad days it reminds me of middle school... the really sad part of it all is that because of it people end up spending so much time and energy trying to meet and participate in this complex protocol (which also _includes_ the act of judging) that they are no longer at liberty to really let go and engage the vibe of the music fully. and to the degree they are able to, that vanishes off the dance floor. so the early/mid 90s rave themes of ego dissolution, unity in the music and vibe and full on ecstatic dance have all but disappeared (at least in many scenes). i blame hip hop. ok not really but i do think the blingy self-agrandizing forms of this music that have seeped into breaks etc have done a lot to add to ego expansion and protection at the cost of compassion and unity. the consciousness-infused rhyming is a different story. (contrast edIT with random rab vs. souleye for those that were at the forest stage at symbi on sunday morn). i have to end this comment on one note of appreciation: at _least_ on the west coast this trend has not lead to the _end_ of dancing. i went to a "rave" about 5 years ago in NYC. oh SO SAD! all the kids were just standing around in baggy pants talking to one another and striking poses... props also to eYen for this comment: "often feeling like i go to these events to be surrounded by my 'tribe', worn out by interacting with the world at large, and seeking solace and nurturing. the last thing i want to do is reach out and put myself in uncomfortable situations.... my compromise has been to commit to reaching out to a stranger at least just once every time i go to an event - especially towards someone who seems to me to be feeling awkward or uncertain of how welcome they are." how nice would it be if everyone tried this ... |
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Sat, September 29, 2007 - 5:27 PM
You can hang out with the 'right' people and play dress up and try to make yourself as beautiful as possible, but still be so fucking ugly on the inside.
(And if anyone falls for this or is in some way impressed by these antics, I don't want anything to do with them, either. Really.) The San Francisco 'scene' does not rank on the world stage. San Francisco art and music is very quaint. So stop making fools of yourselves by being so exclusive. It's meant to be fun - none of it is in any way professional and so does not warrant being so rife with snobbery. (But watching a bunch of nerds trying to 'outcool' each other with an outmoded aesthetic has always been fun.) |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 11:09 AM
while i would answer 'yes' to all your boiled-down questions, stephen, i agree with watson that there's a lot to take into account. i have no problem admitting that vanity is a strong characteristic of the scene, but i'm not very interested in talking just about hotness. i think that there's a lot more going on with the way we all interact. i think that i personally judge people in the scene more by how they dance and who they're friends with than how they look.
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 11:10 AM
in the conversations i've been having on this in the last two days, i seem to end up taking a more apologist stance and getting defensive about how we have the right to do our drugs and play with our friends and not be ambassadors of love all the time. and that's a little weird for me, because i suffered from the challenges of navigating the scene for over a year. so i'm fighting me in my head...
...but one comparison stands out for me: there is a huge and very noticeable difference between the breaks scene in new york city and the breaks scene in san francisco. new york is amazingly friendly; friendships cross lines of fashion constantly and crews with different drug, dance, and fashion interests throw parties together and hang together all the time. specific examples line up in my brain of day-glo spandex-wearing, blinky-loving, e-taking friends of mine who hang out with and are *loved* by dark gypsy-and-elfin-gear-clad, hallucinating goddesses. the crux for me is figuring out why that's true, and if san francisco can embody new york's inclusiveness. i believe my traditional answer has noted that in new york, the burner and breaks scene is so much smaller than in san francisco that people within the scene are naturally inclined to embrace everyone who has a tendency to appreciate their same general values; whereas san francisco is spoiled rotten with our population of tens of thousands of burners and thousands of breaks-headz, and therefore divisions arise and distinctions are made in an attempt to sort everyone out into more manageable groups. but does this really explain it? |
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Unsu...
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 12:35 PM
define "hot"
Stephen, I'll talk more about this with you in person for sure.
I have a history of being attracted to people who are not deemed "hot" by typical standards. After confessing a crush to a friend once, she responded, "but but but...you're like a goddess and he's like...ugh" and well, I guess you had to see her face to get the effect. But while I recognize this atypical measure, I am still completely wobbly-in-the-knees flushed over by the beauty and imo "hotness" of these people. It's about what's on the inside...generally, knowing who they are, having a passion in life and fucking doing it full on. SO HOT! Sometimes the exterior is also "hot" by typical standards...so it's important not to judge either way. I'm often guilty of this. So...the point of this personal deluge: redefine "hot" Superficial beauty is not hot. Watch any "makeover" show and you'll see how easy this is. As a designer, I am not interested in making anyone look anyway that doesn't represent their inner self. I'm not interested in making anyone look cool according to a standard other than their own. I employ many methods in order to do this, none of which I need to get into here. I actually feel blessed that my art can be a conduit in exterior representation of the inner-self. Because for lots of people their exterior expression does help bring out their inner self. I think the reason for this is twofold: they feel better (more in their skin), and those around them react to them in a clearer way (because they are more clearly themselves). I have some pretty intense beliefs in why I do what I do, why I started doing it in the first place...but I don't want this to be an advertisement. I just really miss being able to go out in either a bunny tail, stinky favorite T-shirt, clown nose, waders and/or fedora and dancing hard hard hard without feeling eaten up by eyes and judgments, nor feeling my own personal judgment of the actions of all the physically "hot and sexy" people. when's the next party...I'll try to give it another shot! :)m |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 12:46 PM
It seems this issue comes up every year and gets hammered to a bloody plup on these disscussions.. Its almost like a drug that people can't resist to chime in on including myself. My only opinion is why can't we take a look into our community with a little compassion instead of a bunch of name calling, finger pointing, judgements on people.... Since, I am one of the leaders of el circo I started off reading this thread completely pissed off because someone decides they can judge an entire crew of people based on individual experiences with few. So it hurts...but maybe its true on some level.. I am always willing to take a look at what hurts.. but do I agree or think we are all classist freaks...no.. I certainly know for a fact that we aren't a bunch of rich trustafarians. Or at least I missed mine somewhere. Actually I think its the opposite, I see a lot people working really hard and struggling financially. Why because they are artists trying not to be apart of the corporate chain gang. I generally believe the way a person projects themselves is how they are received.... Sure there is a lot to be changed in our scene.. but there is a lot of good to be received.. I believe a lot of positive things will come out of this thread.. but I also think there is a lot grosse miss judgements being thrown around. Be careful how you stomp...
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 12:49 PM
in response to some comments, i would argue that it takes more energy to be unwelcoming, to turn a cold shoulder and to not smile at someone who is looking for a simple friendly connection, than to have eye contact and smile. as ben pointed out, we're talking about respectful friendliness, not about becoming friends with everyone.
there is no doubt that humans (in this scene and beyond) choose who they interact with taking into more factors than just appearances. however, i'm not prepared to tackle giant sections of sociology and anthropology in a blog post, nor am i interested in diverting attention away from the original ideas and observations posted here focusing on vanity and classism, which cause significant barriers and resulting pain to many people in the scene. orange, i do find the differences in your observations of ny and sf interesting. i wonder what allows the ny'ers to feel more free to have more positive interactions with people with people who look and dress differently. perhaps vanity and classism serve some sort of purpose for us out here on the West Coast. maybe if we can find out what purpose that is, we can find alternative ways of addressing the issue that will serve our community better. |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 1:15 PM
the feather arms race
Check out the Rebel Sell, a quick, relevant and illucidating read:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rebel_Sell "The system" is not something that seeks conformity, but rather the opposite, it seeks individuality and the competition for distinction. ...The capitalist system is not trying to stamp-out individuality, rather, a force of social distinction drives the market; individuals are in constant pursuit to "outcat" each other...In the case of consumerism, the book explains that the phenomenon comes largely from competitive consumption in an effort for distinction, and 'rebellion' is an excellent path to distinction. Since most goods depend on exclusivity for their value, especially goods which are said to decry mainstream life, a purchasing 'arms race' is created whenever others begin to follow the same tendencies: if you lag, you become mainstream. Not surprisingly then, the image of rebelliousness or non-conformity has long been a selling point for many products, especially those that begin as 'alternative' products. |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 1:19 PM
wow
I just stumbled upon this thread and what a conversation we have going here.
I must admit I have not read all the responses so I do not know if what I am about to say has already been said. First off, I congratulate Stephen on taking responsibility for his perspective. We all have our way of looking at life and how we came to look upon the world in the way, what we do depends on an infinite amount of details that are unique to us. That being said everyone involved in this "scene" is coming from a place that we will never understand, people do things for reasons known (or unknown) to themselves and when it comes down to it who are we to speculate why this person is this way and that person is different. My perspective is that a social "hierarchy" is inherent in most human interaction. I have experienced it in all aspects of my life ( school, workplace, partying, etc.) and I have also been involved in three seperate waves of electronic music culture. Each time elitism has come up and people have felt excluded or jealous or whatever at other people. From my experience, in order for elitism and classism to exist, it needs to be believed and perpetuated by all parties involved, the "lower" levels are just as resposible as the "upper" levels for the existence of seperation. I believe a key component of what is happening here is being overlooked. Over and over in the posts, I have seen people refer to our social experimints as a "scene". My question is why are you suprised that there is a social hierarchy involved within a "scene"? To me, what is being talked about here is exactly what a scene is. Why complain about a chicken being a chicken, blue being blue, or a scene being a scene. I am not sure, but to me it sounds like Stephen is looking for something else. I don't devote most of my time to our scene, most of my closest friends ae not even a part of it. I enjoy music and happen to find myself running into the same people who are intrested or like to dance to similar music as me. From there I meet people and a friendship develops. I strive to be friendly, but find myself to be very introverted sometimes. I have been told repeatedly that I can come of as elitist, but really I just shy away from lots of social interaction. Its funny give me a large group of people in one place, and I want to run away. I can relate to a lot of what has been said here, however I cannot say I agree, mainly because I hold the awareness that my point of view is very limited and skewed. I cannot guess the intention behind why someone is behaving the way they are. To me compassion is being able to not take anything from anyone personally, therefore not judging some else because more times than not, it only serves my ego to hold judgements. If you don't like how things are going in your social environment, I think the most constructive thing to do is "be the change" you are looking for. |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 1:40 PM
looking inside
Matty: thanks for your comments. I appreciate you sharing that you initially felt defensive and pissed off when your group was implicated so strongly in this thread. And I also really respect your willingness to look at what hurts. I felt similarly and I'm not affiliated with either group.
I think it's important for us non-circo, non-fedora folks to recognize that there has been name-calling and finger-pointing specifically at the fedora-wearers and the El Circo groups. It's an unfair and defensive response to a difficult topic that requires a lot more introspection. Those two groups have been getting an undue bad rap in this thread. They're not the reason calssism and vanity exist in the breaks scene. It's not their fault that there are social issues that need addressing. They happen to be more visible and placed on a pedestal by some, so they get called out more easily in these instances. But that's the easy way out. The real challenge is for each person on this list to turn inward. To look in the mirror and ask "How have I (personally) acted in ways that promote classism in the scene? How and when have I judged someone or whole groups of people based on their looks or perceived coolness?" The answers may be difficult and be hard to admit. But once each of us has answered these questions honestly and humbly, then we can explore how we each individually change our actions to promote a more ideal and calssism-free scene going forward. |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 2:00 PM
one more thing
i honestly share the same frustration with the equivlent of 'trustafarian peacocks' in terms of suuuper idealistic, ignorant, perpetual partiers whose game seems to be nothing but fun fun fun, and worse off who think of themselve as "saving the planet"
but assigning that to El Circo is just stupid. Those who cast that generalization...do you KNOW anyone who is involved in El Circo? I dont mean attendees (how can anyone 'conrol' who attends? to do that would be being EXCLUSIVE...so youre damned if you DO allow people in whose asthetics arent sophisticated enough, and then you damned if you dont....lame.) i mean the artists who created the vision and work to this day. do you know them? not a single ONE of them is rich, and if they ever become rich it will be from the sweat of their backs. Every last one of them is a true, dedicated genius artist, full of love and full of vision, and working their balls clean off. i mean SERIOUSLY working full time.... there is no trustafarian... peacocks? yes... they are a bunch of FUCKING hot artists and visionaries... mmmm and its good. although i still DO want to see some more faat people and non-hotties getting into alll the performances. and thats what my first post was saying essentially: the SPIRIT of this post (and the responses) are EXCELLENT the LETTER of the post is illinformed, inaccurate, and full of incorrect projections. if we walked around listening to gossip, it would be El Circo is a bunch of trustafarian Peacocks, False Profit is nothing but elitist ivy league jrks, the bassnectar crowd is the cheesiest most abrasive crowd, and all of them are oblivious to this. i know how hard the members of el circo work. i know how sweet, intelligent, generous and well intended all my friends in False Profit are. i know how outrageously mind melting the people-mob gets when my music is really peaking. and of course there are mad exceptions to the rule. but someone might just seem exclusive because they are tired, or shy, or had a bad day. my crowd might seem cheesy because you are trying to dance next to a 16 year old kid whose mind is totally blown by E and has NO idea how to dance cool or anything, and is just pouring glowstick juice on his head and screaming "FUCK YEAH!!!!" ....so judge him if you will, but it would be a lot more special if you showed some love. i was a SUPER GOOBER when i first started going to raves, and some awfully nice, sophisticated folks (trancers actually) took me in. there is also something to be said for friendship.... the notion that just ANYONE should be able to be EVERYONE's best friend is nice...but its unrealistic. When a party hits capacity of over 300 people (much less 3000) it is inevitable that a group will peak at 10-20 individuals who might want to interact in a pod. should every single human expect to enter that pod, amidst the loud atmosphere and just be embraced with total inclusion to a conversation, etc? no! shuld they get a cold shoulder? no. not unless they are being rude and insensitve and maybe need to learn the right ways to approach peple. but thats up to the indivudual. for me, 9 times out of 10 i snub my good friends to make myself available to strangers i dont even know, since i know my friends love me and understand where im at, nd wont feel snubbed, and the strangers DONT know me and will feel snubbed. i dont kow if thats the right approach. but in terms of the debate here, i am suggesting there is mis-projection, and that a lot of intentions are in fact aligned. i *do* commend any effort to transfer focus away from personal appearace, and i AM more interested in musica and social change than in fashion, glam, scenes, drugs, etc... But to some (very authentic) people, fashion IS their art, and their way toward social change, so how can you judge. focus seems well spent on the real issues of classism within our subculture, and within the greater culture of the First World, and essentially: how to recognize when you have enough....when your share of the pie is JUST fine and dandy (aka graciousness) and when its time to start reaching down to help pull other people up... that quote from BM rocks: "if you ever had enough would you recognize it?" again, i am very happy stephen started this post and that so many are chiming in. i commend this kind of discussion. well done you all! |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 5:32 PM
word
Thanks, Stephen, for collecting your thoughts and sharing. I had a number of things I wanted to respond to, while I was reading the gazillion words in this thread. I even took note of them, until I got to Orange and then Kyle's post and realized that they had said everything that I'd outlined for myself.
So, thanks also to Kyle and Orange for the responses. |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 5:59 PM
I'm so vain... I bet I think this post is about me
heee....okay, okay... I'm totally down with most everything that Stephen has brought up EXCEPT
1) Why diss on dressing up and putting energy into looking good? I'm a broke-ass mofo student, so I don't qualify as a fashionista-bla-bla-bla, but I certainly can be VAIN. Oh Yes. VAIN. But does finding joy in using our bodies as canvases-of-sorts necessarily make us snobbish? No. Being snobbish, classist, and elitist is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for vanity, and vice versa. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater; some of us are vain because we truly enjoy looking beautiful in our clothing for the sake of it, just like we enjoy making our homes beautiful or hang beautiful art on the walls. Ars gratia artis, yo. 2) Kill the "it must be LA's influence" nonsense. Anyone who actually spends time living down in the LA area knows that the common SF perception is lame and largely misinformed. I've had both welcoming and unwelcoming experiences all over the place, but hands down, SF has, on occasion, felt more elitist than any other city I've partied in, but at other times felt warm and open (ironically for this thread at False Profit!) so it's all relative. By falling back on the (albeit subtle) allusions to the city to the south, SFers continue the vicious regress. Time to let it go. This is to say that, being a "core member" of the allegedly uber-elitist LA-based Moontribe, I have had plenty of experiences on both ends of the spectrum. We all have. Guilt and shame get us nowhere, but filling ourselves everyday with forgiveness, acceptance, and a commitment to healing the wounds of the past will. If we fill the shadows with light, the dark parts of our psyches have no places to hide. Live in Love. |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 6:00 PM
just to be clear, on Fri, September 28, 2007 - 9:54 PM, i posted a comment clarifying the differences between social class and economic class, which i did not fully discuss in my original post. before i post on various tribes tomorrow morning, i'm rewriting my original essay to make this more clear. i do strongly believe that el circo is at the top of the social class hierarchy in this scene. they are beautiful people from the future. they have set the aesthetic standard that we all strive for. in some ways, i'm glad that they've been as successful at their art and fashion as they have been. its beautiful. i think our drive to be as beautiful and sexy as el circo comes from the overall american culture's value of vanity making its way into our music scene. the breaks music scene here on the west coast has become much like the mainstream american fashion scene. the second point i'd like to make here is that higher economic class folks are priveledged to meet the el circo standard of beauty more than poor folks. thus, classism. its not el circo's fault that their art and themselves are aesthetically pleasing. i praise el circo for following their dreams and being the artists and designers that the want to be. unfortunately, since the music scene and the fashion scene collided, we are now drawn more towards the values of the fashion scene. is that el circo's fault? not any more than its mine, your yours, or hers. this is just the way america works. we've been drawn back into classism and vanity, when before we rejected it. perhaps some day in the future our fashion designer friends will become successful enough that they will be swallowed up by the mainstream culture and leave us ravers behind to be open and play with everyone no matter what they look like. that is one prediction i have. the other is for us to look inside and see how we treat each other based on appearances, and find the courage to be friendly to everyone around us.
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 7:32 PM
my heart is open wide whether ya got a fidora on, have turretts syndrome, love yourself and love to adorn your body with ruffles and lace, have forgotten your beauty and think everyone else is cooler than you, if you love grateful dead or G-Unit, basically I got love for all peoples...BUT if you're eating a BiGMAC, I have a hard fucking time, man...that's where I get downright self-righteous and think we're separate somehow, like "you're not my kind of people," I don't know what to do about this judgement...
At Symbiosis, every person I showed a smile to and opened up the lines of communication, I was met with the same smile and eagerness to connect! I opened up to a lovely variety of spirit frequencies, and all but ONE met me with what I felt was genuineness... i took that one who threw me a psychic dagger and used it as an opportunity to check in with myself and get closer to my gratitude for being one of creations most divine creations... i am so thankful that we are all talking openly about this issue that seems to come up at every single event for the last five friggin years!!!! my plan of action in regards to this matter is to always get clear before I enter the circle with everyone and make sure that my intentions are pure...meaning, the forest, the land, the trees, teh sky are happy with my vibe...if the flowers like my vibe, then all is good to go...i'm such a piscean, huh? |
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 10:50 PM
l'm over looking at others to lead and simplly love to be dancing 365....
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 11:22 PM
what I mean by that is....
....if for one moment
stripping down to the core being letting go of all the material shit of the ego judgemet and looking at who we truely are as individuals and a universal community and how every action and every thought has a domino affect who are we truely when we are stipped doen to the core? |
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Unsu...
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Sun, September 30, 2007 - 11:59 PM
dear stephen,
thank you stephen for having the courage to address this topic. i really appreciate that you are willing to go here because i have been feeling a lot of tension building about this kinda thing. and while i have much to say on this topic, i must say that something about your essay is amiss ...
defining our socials ranks as the el circos, the tutu-ed faeries, those who sport reconstructed clothing, etc seems to needlessly trivialize important issues about social class and the way it plays out in our lives. and in fact i find this framework you've presented to be so problematic that i'm not willing to start pointing out the gross inaccuracies in your anthropological observations (thank you george lakoff.) i will say that dissecting--and in doing so caricaturizing ourselves and many of our friends--in this way (stereotyping, name calling) does not create a space in which constructive conversation can happen. i'm also puzzled about why you've decided to bring up these painful realities about oppression in its various forms in such an aggressive way. witch-hunt style finger-pointing, even when the finger is pointing inward, erodes the efforts that many of us have made to strengthen ties and build bridges with other west coast communities. in the past year i have been inspired by my interactions with new people, and feel as though the moments in which i personally experience the kind of prejudice you describe on the dancefloor to be an eye-opening lesson about how we all need to try harder to be open. and this is hard work, for sure. and i would be lying if ignored just how happy i am when i am in an environment that has been created by hardworking, caring individuals (thanks matty, benny, tuktuk, k8, shira, jodi, little john, alia, bosque and so many others), wearing clothing that miranda made me (in exchange for dinner!) and lovely jewelry that shira poured her heart and soul into ... i feel a major apology is owed to the many people who approach their creating from a place of love and beauty. presenting your critique in a way that potentially undermines the artistic intentions of many gifted and inspired humans feels like a step in the wrong direction. at the end of this experiement you've just put us through, i find myself still interested in how we can break down barriers, learn more about people who appear to be unlike us, more about what actually ties us together, and the nature of solidarity. and i am sadened that at the end of a this years' fesitival season that your thoughts would go in this direction and would love to talk to you (and anyone else who wants to engage in positive, compassionate dialogue) more about it. love, nev |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 12:18 AM
how I see some small things
It's been quite mind boggling to read all that's been said here-- thankyou stephen for bringing this out.
First. As fashion has become something I love, I want to address the idea of fashion, or should I say- style- in a different light. There was a very long time where I didn't dress up. Where you couldn't pay me to put on a skirt or makeup or do much more than run a brush through my hair. I didn't like it. More, I had very poor self esteem and didn't like who I was or how I looked. Then I discovered something. Dressing up, makeup, nice clothes... all of it. It makes you feel good. Dressing in a way that makes you feel like you are being attractive... that's what makes you attractive. Some people translate attractive as expensive clothes... whether it's an international designer or a local one. There's something that I tell my clients often: If you can wear something and Own it. Truly rock it. Then you can pull it off. You can be attractive if you feel attractive. It's not where your clothes come from, it's the attitude you take when you wear them. If you want to rock the hoodie and jeans and can truely rock the hoodie and jeans, then you can be attractive in a comfy old hoodie and jeans. I only started making clothes because people were perpetually commenting and praising the clothing I made, or found, for myself. I figured that providing people with the opportunity to rock something that was made *just* for them, or found with them in mind, would make them feel attractive. Feeling attractive, no matter what size or shape you are, is good for your self esteem. Feeling good about yourself can push you out of your shell enough to meet new people and make new friends. It can drive you to perpetuate the values that you hold dear in your life, including eating well and caring for others. An admission: I judge people fairly strongly on my first interactions with them. This means on their appearance and on their attitude. It really is more of a defense mechanism than anything else. I'm also incredibly self conscious and quite intimidated by large social situations. More often than not, this is translated as aloof and elitist. I see alot of people in our 'scene' as being the same way. Not so much classist but socially anxious and intimidated by the idea of interacting with someone they don't know. Therefore they react in a way that comes off as snobbish and rude. I see the peacocks in our scene wearing the 'cool, expensive' stuff and immediate attitude as a combination of a severe want to fit in and be cool. To feed their want for attention and to show their love of the music at the same time. My limited interactions with these same people off the dance floor tends to be the same. They find interacting socially in large numbers, outside their close group of friends, intimidating or difficult- just like a whole lot of other people I know (including FP in some cases). I find I have friends that fit all the caste types-- from the Feathers to the Hoodies. I find also that they can all tend to be friendly in some right. I find the dance floor to be an interesting place for interaction as well. It's often a place where you have to react to appearance and recognition when it comes down to it. The music is too loud for talking and if someone is crushing your foot every time you move, you're going to react in a way that isn't too friendly. In cases like Bassnectar and Glitch Mob you rely on your friends to maintain a place to dance where you won't be crushed, and HELL YES you push away the people who take the small, precious space you have to move. You dance with your friends because, not only are they fun to dance with, but you understand how they move and can dance without crashing into each other for the most part. Oh, AND they can rescue you from the unwanted advance of the random slime-ball that tries to grind on you. My interaction at Symbiosis was very interesting this year. I went with the intention of being there alone. I didn't carry a watch nor a schedule. I didn't really want to interact with anyone, dance with anyone, make new friends or really hang out with anyone in particular. However, the one time that i was frazzled and rather troubled over losing an item from my coat pocket, everyone-- the fedoras, the faeries, the hoodies, the trancers, friends and strangers asked what I was looking for and if they could help. My experience in the breaks scene over all is also an interesting one. When I came into it a year and a half ago, most people blatantly ignored me for the first 2-3 times they saw me. But as they realized I was actually a new face and not just passing through, people would walk up and introduce themselves to me. They didn't really care how I was dressed (I still wasn't really into wearing skirts or dressing up at all) nor did they seem to care about how attractive I was (I definitely didn't solicit that kind of attention). I never really saw the classism, just different ways people choose to interact with each other. And I generally reacted to the people who were out of their minds on whatever substance the same way I react now. I still meet new people in and out of the scene. I'm still intimidated by some and drawn in by others. I'm sure I still come off sometimes as aloof and completely inaccessible. And I'm sure I pass judgement on people a little too swift sometimes. Just like we all do. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 1:05 AM
Nev and others who believe, that my experiences and the experiences of countless others in the scene are filled with “gross inaccuracies”, I beg you to be open to hearing what so many people are saying. I agree that name calling and finger pointing will not get us anywhere and I’ve tried to not do that as best as I can. But I believe writing off a reality that causes so much pain is far worse than any of my shortcomings in trying to avoid bad manners.
I feel endless appreciation for the hard work and beauty created by all the contributors up and down I-5 the West Coast breaks scene. Like I’ve said before, this is a systems problem, not a problem that can be pinned on any individual or crew for expressing themselves. I believe positive affirmations will only get us so far in building bridges with each other, whether it’s with the person next to us on the dancefloor or a whole other West Coast community. This dialogue and the sharing of various experiences, I believe can create new and deeper alliances if we remain open to listening to each other. If the result of courageous people stepping forward to share their thoughts, feelings and experiences is the creation of barriers between anyone in this scene, be it individuals or groups, then we have way bigger problems than judging each other based on appearances. I hope this post and the ensuing discussion (80+ comments!) is an example of how freely expressing ourselves can lead to new alliances, friendships, or even just a smile to a new friend as we move forward with our lives. Stay tuned…tomorrow I’ll post a vastly superior version of my essay based on everyone’s comments and feedback (and mary's killer advice and editing skillz). |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 1:06 AM
Hmmmmmm
I believe that we all need to be a little more careful generalizing groups and actions. Unless there are specific exchanges with a person, I find it “prejudice” to clump any group/race/color/gender/age together and say, “they are all like this”. That is a very misleading statement and mind frame. To me, that is what fuels many wars… So much more beauty and love could be shared if we would collectively shift out of that mind frame.
As far as classism….??? I do not choose to think like that and never will…in my eyes we are all equal and it is unfair and unfortunate that this view is not shared in the world. El Circo crew including myself are not thinking we are better than any one else. That is not the energy I experience and if some one acts up in an unconscious way, someone in the crew will address it. I try my hardest to never ever size someone up by the way they look, their job, their social skills, their age, the group they associate with, etc…. and if I do start to in my head I quickly shake myself out of it…or hope a friend will shake me out of it. that is not what I was taught to be in life…. El Circo is made up of a collective of people that are all shapes, sizes, ages, colors and beliefs and that is what’s so beautiful… So what that there are HOT SASSY folks…. It makes it interesting! So sorry if you only see the “Skinny, young people”… look a bit harder. Maybe you are unclear who really is El Circo. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder…. These thoughts by all means are not condoning/excusing any individuals’ cruel interaction from El Circo or any other group of people. If that were the case, it should be called out… for the better of the person and the community. It is also a huge growing experience to be the one addressing the issue… it takes a lot of courage to do it honestly. So I would only suggest in calling it out, be specific. Lots of times we might think something is happening but it very well could be the exact opposite. It’s okay to ask someone if they are snubbing you. But ask don’t tell. Maybe your head and personal fears are playing tricks on you…..Maybe you will be surprised with the answer. In being specific get to the point. i.e.: “when I walked up to you and said hi, you did not answer and walked away. Say how you felt… “ I felt hurt and later angry”. "Are you not interested in knowing who I am?" That’s specific without accusing. And then go from there… then decide. Maybe the person you are addressing is so asleep that they are unable to meet you on that level. It does not mean they will not wake up… change takes time and patience…or maybe they will open up to you in that moment. Or maybe you just had wrong timing….and try again. If I may suggest a great book by Marshall Rosenburg…..Non Violent Communication. A tool for teaching us a new language of understanding. My next thought is presence… if we could find a place of being present. The Power of Now by Ekar Tolle is a great teaching as well… I deeply love my friends for better and for worst… we are all working through our personal growth and the shit unfortunately goes with it. Is that possibly the same for you? Every crew has ego…don’t fool yourself….even the trancers !! We push each other for that growth.… issues that involve self, community, and world ways of being….Lorin is a huge asset to our community… His blood, sweet and tears go into his work and he also tries to educate us on political issues. All sorts of people go to his shows… some I do not resinate with… so what… I feel happy all sorts of people are there having a good time and hopefully releasing some of their worldly stresses for the night… more power to them and Lorin for working so hard! I have to say…I would like to see Lorin’s description of his 16 year old fan on E pouring glowstick juice on his head screaming “FUCK YEAH” play out… or maybe not… I understand that El Circo can seem intimidating and un-penitratable (is that a real word?) at times… I don’t want that to be the case. El Circo crew has some BIG personalities but that does not mean it and everyone is exclusive… It’s just a bunch a tight, talented friends having fun and working it out…whom rarely all get the chance to be together in the same place. Some personalities click and some do not… that does not make it personal… At BM in the dome I actually barely experienced all of El Circo crew hanging out…. There were a lot of people I did not know in the dome. Anyway, I do agree that it would be nice if we all made more of an effort in creating more opportunities to get to know one another… As far as fashion. I undoubtedly encourage and respect ALL the community that is out there designing and producing. It goes the same for music !!! It’s not an easy thing to do on both counts and I’m extremely proud wearing community fashions and djing/dancing to friends music…. It is funny stepping back and observing how groups of friends and myself are similar in fashion choice…. But really…who cares! It’s all about support, attraction, choices…. It’s fashion for crying out loud! Come on even jeans and t-shirts are a fashion statement with an attitude… neither is better of worse in my eyes… it’s personal choice and more power to it! Isn’t it okay to choose how you want to express yourself? Why is that offensive ?????? For me I want to share with my friendships (old, new and ones to come) and make and play music… It fuels me… The intention is love and growth… I wish that for all of us… Laura p.s. There are groups of people in our community that I want to connect with and have yet to and not for a second do I think they are dissing me. I just understand that when the time is right it will happen and if it does not happen that is fine too. No need to judge them in a blanket statement because I am hurt over it. - peace |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 1:23 AM
I remember when I went to college in Michigan and I found a book filled with rave flyers from the early to mid nineties, mostly rave flyers from parties in the Bay Area... The Bay Area, it was this far-off distant land.. I'd never been to a rave. I grew up in Ohio. I remember hearing about raves and wanting to experience such an event...
Anyway, I just want to re-iterate what someone else had to say that we're lucky out here on the west coast having this culture. I, for one, am completely grateful for its existence, PERIOD, and i don't think it's perfect in any way, but it's evolving, amazing, and beautiful. Coming from a Midwestern background, the west coast tribal scene is pretty much my dream come true, and I love it. I do hear you that there are levels of separatism and elitism. I had a conversation with my ex-boyfriend about the same issue last year upon driving out of Symbiosis. But I told him what others on this board said... That it takes time for relationships to develop and for trust and bonds to develop. Hell, I was a part of the "Portland Clique" ~ It seems to me that most of the people that I connected to were either friends from Portland, or other friends that I already knew... I met a few new special people, and yes I tend to connect more easily with non-pretentious people, but in general I stuck to the folks that I already know and love. And I think that's just a normal aspect of being a human in a large festival experience. I also want to say that I love the fashion and clothing represented at these festivals, although I'm definitely into a more elvin/ galactic/ monklike look myself, but I can honestly say that I did buy a leather pocket belt at Symbiosis, as it felt like the thing to do (and have?) Anyway, I want to give a shout out to St. Even's response, Kyle's response, Lorin's response and Vibrata's response... I felt you all. Lorin, yours especially made me giggle my ass off. One last thing, I come to DANCE. And boy did I dance. And I didn't take any drugs, but during Hallucinogen/Shpongle's sets, I felt like I was on something. My ego completely dissolved. And that's the point of the festival for me; dancing, and high states of bliss. But I definitely come for the tribal community. I love my friends and I love the presence of this tribe. I think the most important thing in this whole regards is simply to be authentic and true to ones own nature... I do see a lot of fashionableness happening at the festivals, but what the hell. We all want to be beautiful, we all are beautiful, we all deserve to celebrate our beauty and creativity, and it would seem also that many of us have similar aesthetic tastes. Bad ass. We're a tribe. Built upon individual and group relationships. And yes, it is important to realize just how much we're a tiny fragment of a subculture within a much larger culture, and yes we should all be very aware of our affluence and our classist privilege. It's all true. ciao and love sitka |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 1:27 AM
one last thought
I just want to say that I REALLY LOVE SUPPORTING INDEPENDENT ARTISTS.
I like supporting independent, underground clothing designers!!!!!! I like supporting independent, underground musicians!!!!!!! etc... I am so grateful that I have the privilege of being able to support these independent artists who are not widespread accessible in the mainstream. And I love coming to festivals to find the beautiful things that you can't find anywhere else. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 3:16 AM
towards solutions...
some thoughts...
first: thank you stephen for posting. i disagree with some of the things you said (tho' i agree with a whole lot more), disagree with the manner of calling out (though perhaps it was necessary to bring some "truth" out by cutting to the core, hurting feelings, etc.), but i am so glad you brought this into the light in a very well thought out, courageous manner...and the acceptance of blame was a very positive first step. so many people have said many wise words, thank you everyone. i'd like to challenge some of the ideas presented above (apologies if i get an idea out context or happen to run wild with it 'cuz it happened to get me excited), explore some of the ones i find most intriguing, and take a stab at putting forth some ideas on how we can shift toward thinking about solutions. beforehand tho', i will readily acknowledge that some of my actions have perpetuated this madness. not so i can feel good about myself, or just to make stephen happy. and not superficially (the way people in some privilege awareness sessions gleefully proclaim, "i'm racist!" believe me, i've seen it...it ain't pretty. if you don't really see it/feel it, don't fake the funk). but genuinely. i have judged based on appearance. i have seen the existence of classes and played into its traps. i have also, at times shunned them, but certainly not as often as i should have. guilt is a tricky thing tho', so i won't linger here. ok, here goes (fingers crossed for cohesion and, um, articulateness...uh, articulocity?) **some things i'd like to challenge** -money can buy you acceptance i don't think so. i fully understand that money equals privilege, and privilege equals options, and that having the right clothes might, just maybe, cause a member of this "upper class" to be tad more open to you for the first moments of the first conversation. but i think the linking characteristics (shared values, etc.) of the group truly run deeper. let's imagine, for a moment, a venture capitalist with money to burn who all of a sudden wants to gain acceptance from this group. he/she can be/look however you want for this scenario. clean cut asian man? sure. white guy with ponytail/dreads/mohawk? whatever you want...the important thing is that s/he truly has different values from the group. so, they buy the leather cuff and the tricked out vest and get the pocket belt thing (yep, the one that looks like a fanny pack;) and maybe a cool hat (crystal ball says that the fedora fad is on the way out...unrelated to this post). do you really think s/he'll find acceptance? without similar values/outlook/perspective and, most importantly, some shared experience, i think it's unlikely that that first conversation would really go further (i.e., more opening up) than if that conversation was started by a genuine individual who had love for this scene and subculture, regardless of attire. so yes, perhaps if you've been a part of this scene, have a certain taste (i'm not going to take the time to discuss "taste" vs. "trend," i think we all get it, but it's very interesting--read: sad--that people now associate the word "burner" i.r.t. to style and fashion with a few specific styles, not self expression), share values with the group, have shared tons of time with this group and gained acceptance, AND have money to buy the vest, maybe someone in this class who doesn't know you might be more receptive to meeting you. but i think this is based more on the inherent shared values and trust of someone that's only one degree of separation away...money is part of it because it helps us understand notions of class and mobility, but i don't think it's the key here. -vanity comes from "the upper class" okay. so i think we can agree that people are free to wear what they want, right? and it's been said before that the upper class in question has great taste (and no, i will not refer to them by a burning man camp, their hat style or what they stick or don't stick in it...i want this to be broader...if we are going to be inclusionary in guilt/blame/fault, it starts by not singling out...that said, i am referring to to the "upper class" that is being discussed in this framework). they look hott. and a lot of it is because of their choices and CREATIVITY. and yes, sometimes because they spend a lot of money, no denying that. but, premise one, they're free to wear what they want. so, let's just say (even tho' it's prob. not completely true) that they all totally feel that they're expressing their individuality through their fashion choices. what happens next down the social ladder (and i do agree that it happens), is not really their fault. if they are exclusive and make judgements based on appearance and everyone else mimics that, well, THAT'S what needs examining (and i think that this, stephen, is what you're trying to pull apart here). if we feel that memes are perpetuated *beyond our control*, well, then it's hard to see much point in continuing, since, really, we can't change anyone's actions but our own...now, a discussion of why we absorb and continue a paradigm we disagree with, now there's an interesting conversation (see below). basically, it would be highly irresponsible for us to wait for a "them" to shift behavior and let it trickle down... -dressing up is bad i won't elaborate here. i don't think anyone really wrote this, anyway, altho' i think it's been kind of hinted at. but i love dressing up. i love supporting people who make creative clothing that helps people express themselves in ways they couldn't by shopping mainstream. i love that we support our artist friends. i love that i've been inspired to make some of my own clothing (with, um, mixed results...all of it tho', has taught me and unleashed some creativity). so yeah, dressing a certain way to gain acceptance, not good. exclusion based on style, not so good either. gravitating toward a group based on fashion and musical tastes? well, nothing new here (see jazz, rocknroll, metal, punk, hiphop, etc. for examples). -using categories and boxes is more than superficially helpful i'm glad nevada and others brought this up. there is exclusion. it happens. there is, at times, a loose hierarchy. i think there are more lateral groups than have been acknowledged. and i think perpetuating judgements within this thread ("trancers in their ridiculous costumes"?) is not likely to advance the conversation. i do admit, however, that i'm not sure if this would opened up quite as much if people (stephen primarily) had not been as open with their judgements. perhaps it's an okay starting place, but let's move on. (i'm trying hard to get to the solutions part, people...i swear). -these feelings of classism/exculsionary behavior are just "projections" well, projecting them DOES make it more visible, and probably exacerbates the problem...but if hundreds (thousands? millions?!?) feel a certain vibe, then it is truly grounded in some version of "objective" "truth". perception is reality, after all. **some things i'd like to explore** -classism perpetuating itself okay, now we're onto something. i fully see this happen, and it's happened throughout history. someone once wrote that the most powerful thing the dominant class can do is teach the class below it to hate themselves. it might have been written about the master/slave dynamic and i risk quoting it here out of context. i don't think this is exactly what's happening on dancefloors in the woods, but when we reject who we are and doubt our selfworth (based on ANY premise), it certainly begins. part of the definition of a meme is that is repeating (lo, viral in nature!), so we should not be surprised to see it play out this way. there are times, however, when through conscious evolution (bear with me, i'm serious...and isn't this what we talk about, anyway?), we can transcend them...break them...reject them. i hope to touch on this more in the solutions part. and i fully agree with comma and others who have pointed out that if we're talking about class based exclusion (biasing toward financial), well, that's happening on a larger scale...if you are reading this, you are elite and privileged and, sure, "blessed" to have access to a computer and education to read, if nothing else. but we're zooming in here (in this discussion), although i'd like to see that other thread started with a quickness. -PLUR, "it's all about the music," etc. i am really sad to see these values disappearing and that's really all i have to say about this. i have a cynical side, so a part of me is not that surprised. those other musical forms (which, you can bet all had "scenes"/"communities") i mentioned above (jazz, punk, hiphop, etc.) all have been corrupted/tainted by mainstream consumption. we're lucky that we still have such a tight hold on our music and social groups and traditions and fashions that we're not quite there yet. tipper's not on the radio (i think that would be bad, although thinking about it gets me confused...but could something so good be bad?)...mtv does not report live from raindance ('tho the pool party did feel a little club mtv...whatevs, i had a blast). **moving toward solutions** yikes, i've been late night rambling..PLEASE forgive me. but i think this is important and won't have time during the week to get this down...if i don't manage to do any editing, again, please forgive me... -apply a way of thinking bigger than the problem itself i'm pretty sure this was einstein's thing (s/o hitmeup offthread to correct plz)...okay, so we want "class based judgements" to disappear? let's stop thinking in terms of class and pointing fingers at groups. yes, i understand that we need to have the "everything-is-class-based" goggles on to parse this problem...but let's take them off for a while. you want some new ones? how 'bout the Two-Groups-Model lenses...open people and closed people. and let's just say, that you have no idea which group someone is in until you personally interact with them. judging all people from this "upper class" as closed to new interactions isn't fair or productive in my mind and i think most would agree. so, best friends with a stranger from the first shared bassline? of course not. big smiles for everyone around? well, when you're feeling the love, sure, why not. but realistically, this will translate into conscious, positive steps we make in our own way. and if you put yourself in the open category, LIVE IT. this will manifest in all kinds of ways at different times (varying from promoter, to dj, to dancer, to newbie), and absolutelyofcoursecertainly there are times when you will get down with your crew like nobody's business and just TEARSHITUP on the dancefloor (isn't that partly why we're all here?). that is your right, and nigh, unto your obligation! but take time for new friends too... -homogeneity how 'bout this...we have a party where we make everyone wear the same thing. wouldn't that be awesome? hand out burlap sacks at the door. hmm, could you alter them? not sure...okay, now i've out sarcastic-ed myself. and i'm confused. would it actually be awesome and freeing to see everyone wearing the exactly the same thing? (like the naked party idea mentioned above...i know, it wasn't meant to be literal, but why not?)...a part of me shudders to think, another part is intrigued... -positivity i'm about to get cheeseball, feel free to skip this part if you're prone to getting nauseous around this stuff. and then, i am absolutely (goddamn you all) going to bed. i really do apologize for the length here...a little ridiculous, i know. we have a pretty amazing thing going. i have seen so much hard work, so much creativity, so much LOVE (yep, really...LOVE) out there. i have seen a group welcome me with open arms and danced hard with them and with strangers. i have seen people pour their time and energy into creating a world they'd like to live in, if only for a weekend. i've danced to slow grindy sexy glitchy bass lines, bigfukkingbreaks, electro, bits of trance and house when the time has been right, and it's all been fun. yes, there are buzzkills. there are downers and there's some hostility and elitism. but it's always fucking better than going to ikea or watching televsion or being a sheep going through the motions (quiet desperation, etc.)...i agree, stephen, it is really troubling to see the elements of mainstream society that we try so hard to escape seeping in. and i think every action should be taken to prevent this. but i don't think it's as simple as dismissing positive reinforcement as hokey (altho' this thread may not be the place) and focusing on the criticism. let's build together and be open to new connections. let's keep making our magic withlove -=zachary=- |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 3:35 AM
LOVE! LOVE! LOVE!
i just have to put my two cents in here. i'm on the outskirts hangin' out in no mans land in SD. i live for these festivals and gatherings. to me it is an opportunity for all of us to come together. we come from all walks of life. all races, genders, classes, colors shapes and sizes. some of us wear feathers, some of us go naked and some of us cover up and wear turbans. some of us are carnivores and some raw foodists. some of us are atheists and some of us are buddhists. some of us love psytrance and some of us dig breaks. some of us are bankers and some of us spare changers. but people, lets remember WE are all the same. we are are ONE human race.
i for one am a believer that we will see PEACE in our time. that a GOLDEN AGE is upon us. we have so much to be thankful for. it's such a blessing and a privelege that we even have these opportunities to come together and DANCE and be merry. that we are so fortunate to be a part of something so truly MAGICAL. take a moment to think on these things. how truly blessed WE all are to have these events, this music, our freedom, EACHOTHER and to be alive in this very special time. LOVE to you all! |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 9:09 AM
beyond the surface.
this discussion is sooOOoo meaty & i'm thrilled there's so much intelligence/thought/debate/heart being plastered on my monitor to read & get in on... thank you all who've read or contributed. BUT i do disagree with the angle of which this discussion was propagated.
we are a giant melting pot of old skool hippies/nu skool freaks, mystics, musicians, the wise, the weird, the privilaged, the struggling, lovers, haters & thank GAWD we all ended up here together. & that's why we stay, yeah? & it's also why we attend certain events, gather @ specific coffee shops, choose to walk down mission st rather than valencia.... dancing very delicately but compassionately with the "classes" that inherently exisit within a massive group of people. & i fucking hate the term class (pardon my chinese) & wish at this early hour i could find a more colorful, loving term but alas... so stephan. by you choosing to not wear/not wear g-star, the clothing handcrafted by our artist friends, or target purchased underwear, you putting yourself into a class. it's the non-fashion class. i'm part of it, too. although i am guilty of some damn fiiiiiine articles of well made tailored jackets, who can resist italian??? but i don't think that this particular class, the "i'm going to resist purchasing retardedly expensive t-shirts to make an anti-fashion statement & use my skrilla for OTHER FORMS OF EXPRESSION" class falls between/under/above any of the other said classes (trustafarians, the el circo's, the FP heads, the hippies, blingers, ravers, furries). there's no social tier because of the very silly & beautiful & strange way we choose to dress or what music we cream to. they're all in alignment with one another as creative, expressive creatures of diverse tastes, weight, race, talent, intelligence & the only hierarchy is the one created in your mind. by giving us labels & pointing specific people out, you're feeding into the hypothesis you're trying to discourage "running" our community. it's just fucking clothes. or a hat. or a functional multi-pocketed belt or comfortable worn in tee or bright socks or odd hairdo. there's no oppresion. just expression. i LOVE all of you wicked much & i love witnessing our growth together. but name calling & bouj thoughts about one another isn't super conducive to us continuing as a community. constructive words in! shitty labeling out. *** |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 9:51 AM
ok, y'all, posted the new version around tribe. one thing before i share those links...i beg those who misinterpret my writing as bashing and finger pointing to examine their own projections. this was intended to be a discussion of a system, not of any group or individual. shaming me (us) for my (our) thoughts and my (our) analysis, moves us backwards, not forward and derails the analysis of the system. saying let's think positively and not examine ourselves as a system, discourages free thinking and free speech, which we would all (probably) agree is a good thing. secondly, i believe class exists in our scene's system, just like it does in every social system in capitalism (that i am aware of). i think my believing it and my talking about it does not create it, but its existance is real. just like the class system in the american culture is a real thing, just like racism is a real thing. these are not mere projections of our beliefs that they exist. don't go telling an african american that racism is in their head and to think positively and it will go away.
but now i'm derailing the conversation, which is the last thing i want to do. if you're interested, start a "manifestation: racism is in your head" blog and let's talk about that there. watson's already started a great side conversation on his. let's see more of that. but back to topic, i have rewritten the essay before posting it around, and invite you all to read it in its new form. hopefully it makes my intentions, my arguments and my non-bashing clearer and more accurate. check it out with its new positive intro in these places and come back to comment further here on my blog... elcirco.tribe.net/thread/5d...611b7b8a11 getfreaky.tribe.net/thread/6...775ae3a7f bassnectar.tribe.net/thread/...27f17a75 tribes.tribe.net/theglitch...9911d99f48 falseprofit.tribe.net/thread/...d8aab92f |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 10:31 AM
I woke up thinking about this thread. So many thoughts, words, conversations were filtering through my consciousness upon melting back into reality, and i re-read some of the dialogue here... And I just want to say that I see a variety of aspects of this 'issue' ~
After reading Ana's reply, which I wholeheartedly agree with, I went to her tribe profile, which lead me to someone else's tribe profile, and then i looked at their pictures and am reminded of the predominant affluence in California, due largely I think to the fact that the cost & standard of living is so high that so many people have to work high paying jobs or do things that will accrue large amounts of money, because Cali is so darned expensivo. And I think it's natural that people who then accrue money will want to glam themselves out a bit... But as I was looking at the pictures, I am reminded of society's general emphasis on 'bigger, better, faster, more' and the culture steeped in attitudes about hot girls, celebrities, wealth, abundance, through advertising campaigns and magazines... We're all susceptible to the programming in our collective unconsciousness. And that's what I think you're pointing out here in your thread, is the level to which we as a subculture are acting out the collective unconsciousness. It is obviously a very privileged thing to do to be able to buy $180 jackets, $100 belts, $40 bottles of wine, $14 plates of macro / salmon, etc.... It is a privilege to be able to come to these events and splurge, and most people in America will not be able to come to these events, and we are a small subsection/crossection of America at large, the ones with a visionary creative flair, with a desire for evolving, and a goal towards sustainability. But it is obviously not sustainable.. We could be doing better, we could be trying harder. Hell, we're still driving cars, and we're making ourselves look good, which IS narcissistic, it's true.. We could be putting our money towards helping folks in Peru who just had the earthquake, but people are people and they want to take care of themselves and make their little bubble beautiful. It's natural. I am reminded of all the struggling I witnessed in Peru, and it is obviously a major privilege that I am even able to go to Peru. Most of my friends here in the states are too broke/ struggling to make big trips to foreign countries. And the ones you're talking about Stephen are people who jet-set around the world all the time and go to festival after festival in Europe, Asia, Bali, and the States... I know here in Portland, things are WAAAAY different than in San Fran. Most of the folks in the "Tribal Community" are broke or struggling or making it but working their asses off... I do know that most of the tribal artisans that I am friends with here in Portland, including all the folks in the psytrance scene, put their heart and soul into every stitch, creation and event. And are barely making ends meet. And I, due to the work trade that I have created for myself, am privileged. I am not struggling. I can afford to travel and buy amazing clothes. And I do want to say that I am always grateful when I am able to purchase amazing, one of a kind pieces that are spendy but actually make me feel like I'm finally embodying my authentic self. Given the fact that we live in a monotone culture of Khakis, T-Shirts and Hoodies, I am so grateful to be able to find amazing, beautiful, creative pieces that are special and don't fit the monotone culture standard of style. just a few thoughts. thanks for the amazing conversation. Thank you also Nevada!!! Liked what you had to say. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 10:51 AM
As a Bay Area native let me just say that the phenomena of elitist fashion nazis exists and flourishes in many different scenes here, and has for a long time! Back in the late 80s when I was a teenager living in Berkeley, the Uber hot, Uber cool scene that I was peripherally exposed to was the Punk scene. I grew to despise people who moved to the Bay Area from whatever boondocks city, donned some tats, piercings and manic panic then became REALLY snobby.
I was never even a punk rocker myself but still had to deal with this kind of attitude by default, from living, working and going to school in the bay area. I just couldn't escape it. I honestly feel that way again, in this time of my life and it's interesting that 15 years later it is still affecting me. For those of you that are enamored with the visual aspect of these parties that we speak of, blesses to you and may you only have uplifting and inspiring moments on the dancefloor. It's just not for me. A lot of people on this thread have stepped away from something that Stephen originally brought up... that we used to claim, with pride, that it was ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC. I have been *cough* raving in San Francisco, in various scenes, since 1992 and let me tell you how much MAGIC happens in this city!! It comes and goes, but always regenerates in some form or another. I started out following the Wicked FMGs and when Cool World and Funky Tekno Tribe came to town I declared the Magic Over. Then, three years later I found an underground techno scene and couldn't believe that I was feeling that same vibe again. Now I've been a scene whore for many years and found this magic in many different scenes with many different kinds of music. The drum n bass scene, for example, was stellar for so many years, but then fell to many of these same complaints, although the elitism didn't have much to do with fashion! So there, I said it. The fashion is not the problem, for me. It's that people are going to these events for reason other than connecting on a musical level. I actually really enjoy the music at these parties and most of the DJs are colleagues and friends of mine. But I hate the vibe. I've pulled back so much from the breaks scene because of this. And it gets worse for me, because recently i've been chasing these people out of my own home when some party lets out and a few texts get around that my house is the afterparty. So I'm not sharing this info based on some peripheral outsider feeling I get at parties. It has literally "hit home." So with that qualifier, I'd like to address some really bad, childish, rude behavior that results from an aggregation of FHMs, burner barbies and kens, glam hippies, whatever. I've had people IN MY OWN HOME (doing cocaine on MY coffee table) not even look up, introduce themselves or grant any semblance of acknowledgement, warmth or friendliness towards me or my non-glammed out friends and roommates. They seriously act like we should be grateful that their super hot, sexy uber cool cocaine train landed on my doorstep. You folks who are trying to articulate an unwelcome, intangible bad feeling that you get from this scene are verbalizing something that is very, very real for many of us. I don't consider myself an insecure person and have never excluded anyone because of the way they looked. As a matter of fact, I actually enjoy bringing new people into a scene that I feel proud of.... there are a few people on this thread that I've reached out to when they were new to the scene and "no one knew them" and went out of my way to introduce them to as many people as possible, make them feel welcome, etc. There IS another way to treat people at a party, and there are other things to focus on than just what people are wearing or how they look. I have to say that although FP maybe makes some people uncomfortable, you guys have ALWAYS been my favorite crew to play for. There are so many folks in FP that I don't know... and many more who i only know a little bit but I have always felt so at home, so welcomed, so right partying with you guys... and these days y'all are throwing some of the only breaks parties that I really want to go to. So I've been pulling back and waiting for something new to come around. No offense to the individuals at all.... it's the collective energy that I shy away from. There is just something better and different out there for me. So I'd like to leave on this note.... there is a huge Elephant that no one has brought up yet that might have A LOT to do with the complaints: THE BLOW PEOPLE. WHAT IS UP WITH ALL THE BLOW!!!!!!!! |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 11:47 AM
1) Is looking "hot" a primary value of this scene? NO... 2) Does looking "hot" (as defined by appearance - age, body type and dress) give one more access and power in this scene? No, but your merits do, and i need to ad there isn't much power or access to be had. 3) Does helping people look "hot" and creating opportunity for people to look "hot" give one more access and power in this scene? No, unless if YOU the purchaser give them that power, over yourself. Also does not being comfortable with your own body or image, give you right to resent people you perceive (notice i say perceive because people judging people on their appearance is shallow in my book, and yes this goes both ways.) to be more beautiful than yourself. 4) Does having more money make it easier for one to look "hot"? Silly question as if you have alot of money you have lots of choices for cosmetic surgery etc.. I also have to debunk one of your myths your essay has perpetrated, alot of the people in the scene that i know of do not come from rich backgrounds, and did not go to IVY league schools. alot of them worked very hard and had to overcome lots of challenges in life. is there anything wrong with being successful through hard work, and being very creative. Instead of making assumptions on about the people you are talking about maybe you should do more research, find out who they are before you judge them. Base the essay more on science than assumptions. 5) Have you noticed a trend (and i'm sure there are exceptions) that the "hotter" the person (which i would argue ends up correlating with social status or popularity, since we try and surround ourselves with as many hot people as possible) the less open they are to everyone who walks by, but in contrast the less hot people are more open (especially to the hot ones)? [note: This disregards including resentment for being ignored for being less "hot" or "lower class" as a reason to be closed off to hot people (because i don't believe in reverse classism just like i don't believe in reverse racism). In general life I would say that is a true statement, within our scene that isnt as true. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 11:52 AM
:)
a) i promise never to wear eye liner again. from now, only sack-cloth and ashes thay i may be approachable
b) i am loving everyone's thoughts c) Stphen, i may have mis-spoken, i dont think YOU were really the innacurrate one, i think this entire thread is bang on, except that the generalizations, and examples struck me as less than accurate. When it start off messy, then nothing can proceed until the initial draft is cleared up. again, i love your mind, and i hope you keep stirring the pot. that said, im way more keen on a conversation about OUR WHOLE SCENE AS A MEMBER OF THE UPPER CLASS. and the culture within which our scene lays its dreadlocked head. We are all people of enormous privilege, and wether we choose to ACCEPT it or not, there is a tremendous responsibility that is part of that privilege. I think again:: less drugs, less parties, less random and incessant celebrating, and more thinking, talking, learning, teaching, asking, debating, discussing, practicing, acting, taking responsibility and REALLY stepping up. Elsewise we are just like burnout hippies from the 60's who just grow old, get rich and jaded, and fuck off. its super hot to be made uncomfortable publicly, to be called out, and to defend your views, or to admit that your views were wrong, and you know that now. Once i personally realize i was wrong in my opinion, i am no longer wrong any more...there is no shame in that. Discussion and debate are good. i might be wrong: but i think we owe it to those in less fortunate situations to take a bit more responsibility. And if anyone wants to reach for the uber-obvious card of "but lorin you are at more parties than any of us" i am happy to go there with you, just be prepared, because i am well thought out on this topic. anyhow, i hope more people spread this link around....i wanna see more thoughts. L |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 12:19 PM
adam accidentally deleted the thread on his tribe. now up at:
getfreaky.tribe.net/thread/0...623bebf31 |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 12:20 PM
stephen, you are a person i'm immensely proud to be associated with--on the dancefloor; at a party we're throwing; on tribe. i'm wondering if you are interested in sharing some thoughts about how you wish to change your own behaviors. are there things that you--as an individual, not you as part of false profit—think you'd like to change in your social interactions?
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 12:24 PM
i thought i had mentioned this, but apparently not:
kyle, your words resonated very strongly with me. thank you--i agree with your thoughts. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 12:45 PM
some specific responses about initial steps at integrating new community members...
calli said... 'When I came into it a year and a half ago, most people blatantly ignored me for the first 2-3 times they saw me. But as they realized I was actually a new face and not just passing through, people would walk up and introduce themselves to me. They didn't really care how I was dressed (I still wasn't really into wearing skirts or dressing up at all) nor did they seem to care about how attractive I was (I definitely didn't solicit that kind of attention).' i have had lots of experiences similar to calli's. my continued presence on the dancefloor has seemed to matter much more than my clothing. also, i tend to act in the same way to others--being drastically friendlier if i've seen them more than once. i'm not conscious of being UNfriendly, even, if i'm around people i've never seen before. perhaps i don't think of them as community members...? (that's an interesting thing for me to think about and try to change.) miranda said... 'there are a few people on this thread that I've reached out to when they were new to the scene and "no one knew them" and went out of my way to introduce them to as many people as possible, make them feel welcome, etc.' yup--i'm one of them :) miranda's got a perspective on the situation that i really appreciate. thanks for responding, you. and i think she's articulated one of the ways that we can each individually make a difference-- if you encounter a person who you deem to be a good and awesome human, but they are new, introduce them to a few folks on the dancefloor. it's amazing how much this makes a difference-- you aren't trying to create friendships, you're just making the little connections that end up creating cohesive community. re-reading that, it sounds simplistic and hokey, but i am *constantly* surprised when i find out people who've been dancing across the room from each other for 2 years don't even know each others' names. and knowing a name is not a trivial step in creating more friendliness. knowing a name makes you responsible for remembering that person and greeting them. (and doesn't name-remembering end up being one of the things that we all let become a big deal in gauging someone's haughtiness?) |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 2:39 PM
1st, orange, i try and smile and have eye contact with everyone around me. whether its the homeless person on the street, the suit in the financial district or the person who accidentally stepped on my toe while dancing next to me. i had the most amazing interactions with people i never had seen before, nor will probably ever speak to in my life at symbiosis. they were simply looking into each others eyes, for about 2 seconds, with uncontrollable grins on our faces, acknowledging the other person's experience. i try and do the same even if someone isn't having the time of their life, just to acknowledge that we're all in this together.
2nd, i have been called out by aaron jae for my classist choice of tribes on which i posted my essay. aaron, we might not know each other very well, but i thank you for that. like i said to him, i don't feel like posting everywhere to spread it too thin, but i should be posting with some diversity. now also posted on: sfbreaks.tribe.net/thread/5...39e0cb710 spacecowboys.tribe.net/thread...897c9ef tribes.tribe.net/evilbreak...6071fd4e9e |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 4:33 PM
oh snap
the crux of this discussion for me revolves around issues of ego ...
that strong 'I' that wants to separate and divide ... take pride and ride waves of self image grand ... personally, and maybe this is an oversimplified cop out, but i think that as we each do the work personally to become aware of our own egos and how they insert themselves into situations how our egos get in the way of fluid, harmonious, effortless effort ... as we each become aware on a personal level of this the barriers to authentic connections between those of dissimilar appearance, culture, etc will naturally dissolve ... as we embrace on a bio-energetic level the spirit of Oneness. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 4:54 PM
We attract similar vibrations to the ones that we emit,
My experience at symbiosis was spiritual and had no classism, mostly because I shred through those kinds of realities. Besides we are the scene, so get to it and be the change.... |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 4:59 PM
May I also add:
All those glitch mob boys (and girl) are SMOKIN HOT!!! |
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Unsu...
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 5:20 PM
"The fashion is not the problem . . . It's that people are going to these events for reason other than connecting on a musical level . . . I hate the vibe . . . I've had people IN MY OWN HOME (doing cocaine on MY coffee table) not even look up, introduce themselves or grant any semblance of acknowledgement, warmth or friendliness towards me or my non-glammed out friends and roommates. They seriously act like we should be grateful that their super hot, sexy uber cool cocaine train landed on my doorstep."
Hot fucking damn. Yeah, this culture of VIP VIIP VIIIP area bullshit is weak as all hell, especially given that this scene is just a blip on the map, really. There are crews that have been doing it for decades, and all they've got is love, but the best way to burn it out is to let the whole deal fall to this kind of bullshit. I personally have largely given up on breaks parties because I can't deal with coming face-to-face with such antisocial behavior as described above. Fortunately, techno is back, and though the people at those parties are all strangers to me, man is it ever nice not to care about running into someone I know, but who I'm certain will ignore me entirely. Meanwhile, though I do understand that, in order to really do a good job at throwing regular parties, you need a solid group of core members, I think Ryan was very right in mentioning just how walled-off FP really is from a large portion of the people it claims to be dedicated to entertaining. You guys throw some rad parties, and I have an extreme amount of respect for you all for doing so, but if you guys really want for the change to happen, it's GOT to be top-down. PERIOD. To give an example of what I'm talking about: I was actually bothered by the fact that FP maintained its own "supercamp" at the Raindance campout, which wasn't even technically their event, though they were instrumental in making it happen. It's cool that you guys had a hand in it all, but was the separate camp with the sign and everything really necessary? Meanwhile, the rest of us can SEE that you guys had your own marked-off space. I mean, it's one thing to be a theme camp at Burning Man, but do you have to have your own theme camp at every other campout then, too? I know that a lot of people have reduced this dialogue to marked acceptance of who's hot and who isn't, but it's pretty clear that that's not all that's happening. It is down to who has the best drugs and who knows whom and who's allowed into the land of the VIP area. I can definitely understand wanting to have your own party with your own friends and whatnot, but in terms of being part of the greater community, how is such isolationist behavior constructive? How can there be community at all if we're putting up signs and drawing lines and actually agreeing to route certain people this way and certain other people that way in order to make sure that all the cool kids are in the same space? (And where's that sense of spontaniety and adventure when you reduce everything to such simple terms?) When it comes right down to it, the cool kids don't get to be cool without the uncool kids showing up, too. So let the uncool kids actually participate. You were all uncool at one point as it is, so stop telling yourselves that you're separate and different by reinforcing it everywhere you go, or those same uncool kids will be gone before you notice that the audience is dwindling . . . and it would be a shame to see such a vibrant scene kill itself in that way. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 6:00 PM
erin once again makes an awesome point. the VIP area issue is a good point of proof to me that there's a problem with class in the scene.
and while i'll defend for days our rationale for having a camp at raindance and offer explanations for why things were done a certain way that weren't at all intended to do anything other than keep our shit and people organized, i can't defend the end result if it made people feel excluded. (there were other groups at raindance this year besides false profit that had theme-camp-ish areas, though. if we hadn't had a sign would it have made the situation better?) |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 6:15 PM
also x7...
i second miranda's rather loudly phrased suggestion that perhaps blow might be a factor.
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 6:56 PM
Psytrance perspective
As an inhabitant of California and Black Rock City for the last 8 years, I've seen a gradual change. When I moved here in '99, I was (and still am) a lover of psytrance music. I sought out its music and parties, and became very fulfilled with the results. At the time there was a warehouse called the CCC which was integral to the community here in San Francisco. I went to some of their parties and a few core members (called the "old guard" in our circle, lol) were very sweet to me, welcomed me and my young energy into their lives. Those people are still some of my best friends in the world and I love them dearly. Then there were the people passing through the warehouse, and the newer additions who jumped into it during its latter moments. It was from these people that I had my first hardcore experience of elitism. If you didn't dress correctly, or follow the same doctrine, or travel properly, or make clothing or art, or have the same experiences that they associated with, you were looked down upon in a very arrogant manner. Once I found myself to be emitting the same pettiness and attitude, I pretty much wrote them off and decided to find friends elsewhere. Yes, they were beautiful vibrant artistic people, but their hypocrisy of supposedly being spiritual and enlightened, yet having a delusional class structure where they excluded others who didn't live up to their expectations, made me feel sad for them.
Then the breaks scene took over and became the fashionable "in" thing to do. Many of the people I used to see at trance parties are now firmly embedded in the breaks scene. They were, and in my view still are, the same conceited people they were six years ago. I love psychedelic trance, but I'm not a psytrance snob. I love progressive, breaks, downtempo... all forms of electronic music can make me dance. Personally, I can't stand hip-hop, so the current trend in West Coast breaks bores me to tears. But if people like it, awesome! And to me, that's what this dance culture is all about: MUSIC. But when fashion and elitism loom over a style of music, their parties, and the people who attend them, I find it very sad. Sure, fashion and art are integral to dance music. Decorating ourselves and our environments is one of the most beautiful ways of expressing ourselves, and I find the so-called "feather-leather" fashion and art to be jaw-droppingly sexy, tribal and intricate. Unfortunately, and this is why I pretty much stopped attending breaks parties, I found the people who were wearing this amazing art to be extremely rude and exclusive on and off the dancefloor. "Dance like no one is watching" did not seem to be a concept that the majority of the people who attended the parties seemed to partake in. It was all image and style, and since I wasn't wearing the uniform (no fedora, makeup, feathers or leather for me, thanks), I could virtually SMELL the disdain coming towards me. Now, I know that a lot of the people in the breaks scene are not as small-minded as this kind of attitude projects. But this is how the dancefloor feels, and, like it or not, it's how the breaks scene is perceived as being. I know some fashion designers, DJs and other "higher-ups" in the breaks scene and they are lovely people. But don't really connect with them as well as I either used to or want to, mostly because I can't enjoy myself at most breaks parties anymore. Yes, it's a matter of musical taste, but it's mostly the vibe of the events. I walked into El Circo once this year and after five minutes I couldn't stand the posturing and noses in the air and left to find a party with a more friendly vibe. Maybe the people in El Circo and other groups are wonderful people, but the people who look up to them and strive to be on them and jump on this feather-leather bus are, most definitely, not. Personally, I've found that I don't bother trying to meet people in the breaks scene anymore because they tend to look at me like an alien and then ignore me. I'd rather not waste my time, thanks. The friends I already have in the breaks community are enough for me. Being an outsider, I'm not privy to the inner-workings and politics of the breaks scene. But as an outsider who has friends on the inside, I see the things that are being talked about in this discussion. I'm of the mind that this might cause the breaks/glitch scene to implode as more and more people become disenchanted with it and leave it. Who knows? All I know is that the psytrance scene, though very opinionated about music, especially our own. I could go on and on for days about the division in our scene here in SF between psytrancers who like the heavier, darker, faster, more industrial and crazily psychedelic psytrance and the other half who like the more groovy, bassline-oriented, bouncy, melodic, full-on style (aka me ;) But when it comes to energy on the dancefloor, there is nothing like it. A general vibration of love, acceptance, fun and openness is created on a psytrance dancefloor. I went to the forest stage a couple times on Saturday night at Symbiosis and didn't feel that very much. It was fun, don't get me wrong, but I felt that it was pretty impossible for someone outside of the social circles to feel invited onto the dancefloor. At the field stage, it was pretty much the opposite vibe. Not sure what steps the breaks scene will take, or if it even needs or wants to take any steps. I just think that it would be more fun if people focused more on the party and the music than if they're wearing the right outfit. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 7:08 PM
an edit
After reading Donna's post, I want to say that I feel the same way. It's not the fashion, it's the vibe of the people wearing them. I think the artistic effort of the breaks community is wonderful. It's just a shame that the people who have flocked to be part of the crowd find it necessary to be shallow. If that point didn't come across in my post, just wanna say that it should have.
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 7:22 PM
...back in with the PLUR
Word up, Trix.
I agree with all aspects of your assessment, but more significantly am impressed by your approach, rooted as it is in a genuine interest in evolving the culture, as opposed to coming from a place of frustration or jealousy. I think you were correct to call out a specific segment of the scene which is, after all, rather transparent in its snobbery -- even as I count many of its members as people I love, and its music as some of the very best in *all of music*, no less. (Beach Stage, Shambhala 2007, Sunday night / Monday morning). Were you to avoid calling it out in hopes of not setting off personal alarms, the write-up would have been lost to theory like a bad piece of academia. In fact what you've produced is very good anthropology, with clear observations, considered theory, and, like any credible field research, an acknowledgement of your own bias and perspective. Particularly valuable is your insistence that we ask *ourselves* to address our own inner manifestations of the hierarchy rather than point fingers at others. Cheers, brother. That's evolved. In any case, I think the very existence of this thread and its staggering number of responses is something of a solution in itself. The cat's outta the bag -- fedoras aren't going to look quite as cool anymore, that's for sure. It feels like the French Revolution or something. Let's just intend that the aristocracy gets replaced with Love rather than jealous peasants... and that GLITCH LIVES ON!!! With thanks, Shiraz (B.A. Sociology) |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 7:35 PM
Well, with such a well thought out and sincere post such as this, I, too, am compelled to respond.
First, I apologize to all the others that have responded already: I did not read all the posts so if I'm repeating someone else's pov, I bow to their thoughtful consideration. Ok, so although I am very sympathetic to the ideas in this blog, I don't entirely agree with all of them. The idea that the upper classes control or influences what is "cool" gives to much credit to their creative tendencies. I find that the truly creative are, way more often then not, members of the lower income classes. Of course, I'm referring to the arts here and not "business" or commercial creativity. The financially well off tend to be followers of the arts rather than pioneers - in my humble opinion. I have seen many genres of music develop in the "underground" scenes only to be heavily invaded by the popularity seekers. Jazz was found in the alleyways and bayous of America long before it was "cool". R&B and funk was eschewed by many in the mainstream rock and roll scene - until disco hit and then all of a sudden it, too, was cool. Punk was took hold in the underground as we were all "boogieing" in the newest light show dance floors. Then it was invaded by those non-creative types that wanted to be "in". I watched all this in disgust and ultimately checked out of the pop music scene. Then, in the late eighties and nineties i started listening again to see where mainstream American music had gone. Old Skool was already "old". Huh?!! i saw huge riffs in the various music scenes. Grunge was coming to an end (I missed it). But I found some stuff I liked. i also found the same behaviour - the yuppies invading the latest in underground music - just to be "in". I've never been to Burningman but I remember being inspired by the creativity it attracted. The outfits were truly inventive. the installations were mind boggling! And then I started to recognize the burningman "look". Once again, the not so creative types wanted in and dressed like everyone else. I have seen this in many cites as well. In Portland, OR downtown was a slum in the seventies and no one went their except the homeless and those who, unfortunately, worked for business who had not yet left. Many warehouses and office buildings became vacant. Then the artists moved into these spaces because the rent was so cheap. And they made wonderful use of the spaces. Yes, you guessed it, then came the yuppies who wanted to be a part of all this creativity. Today, NW Portland is yuppie-ville USA. The same phenomenon is currently happening in SE Portland. And it happened in Austin, TX. And in many SF Neighborhoods. Anyway, my point is that the creative types tend to define what is "cool" and it is only the upper classes that destroy the wonderful underground scenes by taking them mainstream. But, fortunately, the cycle continues and will continue to evolve. I got more to say but I have to go eat my dinner. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 7:46 PM
wow
i have to say, its a shame you didn't edit your shit more rigorously....
you are still conflating social and economic classes, which you claim to talk about seperately..... you still create an arbitrary, linear hierarchy..... not to mention equally arbitrary (and necessarily false) categories of human beings.... you even encourage the READER to make their own category for themselves & their friends and place it on the totem pole. this is not the same thing as saying "racism doesn't exist." racism does exist. it is RACE, and the false categories of "black" and "white" that do not exist in reality. in reality we are WON SPECTRUM of people. by all means, confront racism, confront mindless vanity, rudeness, ignorance - but don't do it by perpetuating these categories & ignorant ways of thinking. now, you may think in these terms (and thats fine), but i think dressing up your observations in the language of critical theory or sociology is misguided, sloppy, and ultimately confuses the positive dialogue that SHOULD be the result of your post. wouldn't it be better to talk about solutions than to get bogged down in categories? ANY mature, creative system is BOUND to be corrupted by money and the dominant memes of capitalism...... lets think of positive ways to deal with it...... |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 7:50 PM
as far as concrete observations
yeah, let's look at the influence of:
alcohol, cocaine, mindless & nihilistic "gangster" rap passed off as "glitch" or whatever...... those are real issues...... |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 8:22 PM
Ok, so the other thing I wanted to say is...
Having grown up in the hippie generation, I believe we were seeking what is referred today as PLUR although I don't ever recall hearing or seeing this abbreviation. When I got into trance music around the turn of the century, I not only heard the term but also experience it. I kept thinking, this is what we were trying to accomplish! Everything was good. People accepted each other for who they were and what they believed in. And they hugged! Dems and republicans, jews and christians and aetheists and muslims, the rich and the poor and everything in between, the elders and the youngsters, and, yes, the hippies. It was cool. But in the last several years I have watched as the trance scene divides itself. The progressive crowd thumbs their noses at the dark psy crowd. The full-on crown shutters at the thought of listening to "cheese". Drum and Bass used to be part of the same group but no longer. Tribal has also splintered off. Minimal and tech house are gaining momentum, but not with die hard hard trauma trance crowd. I know wonderful people in all these scenes and I hear them dis other music not to their liking. So, yes, the trance scene does still have remnants of the original idea of PLUR, but I see it disappearing there, as well. |
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Unsu...
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 10:28 PM
Lil' ole me never really has much to say but....
this really crawled under my skin! Classism? Vainity?Is it as deep as it's been made to be?
I have watched our social interactions and fashion styles for years as they wax and wane, grow and change and get woven into the fabric of our tribe, like sands from the hour glass, these are the days of our lives... The values of our current scene aren't just simply vanity and hotness but creativity and self expression. It has shifted from the music and dance to something else but it cannot simply be be looked at the same way as our high school dynamics.....The clothes we are admiring aren't just fashionable, cutting edge, trend-setting department store garments, as they were in high school when the cool kids wore them. And the wearers aren't little rich kids who went out and bought them with daddy's credit card(trustafarians? where?) The outfits today are one of a kind "hippy couture", envisioned then designed by the artists or "beautiful people from the future". The kids wearing them are the designers, it is their art. (or some has been traded for other peices but either way there is a very personnal connection, not a department store) For me, the mystery and allure is the magic and manifestation that has happened for these clothes and pieces (think feather head dresses) to exist. I have made very few of my own clothesbecause it's work. I admire the time, energy, passion, vision and commitment that was poured into their *ahem* vanity. I really don't see these people as the top of the social class but rather as artist's that value beauty, creativity, expression, adornement, ritual, and community above other values, such as intellectual debate, corporate careers, or PLURing around the dance floor at an event. The selling of these designs is an attempt by these very hard working artist's to be supported by their art, just as a DJ charges for his set at an event (note the HIS because very few women are DJ's, but sexism is another thread). The wealthy folks who chose to buy these expensive pieces for cash rather than trade, well, that's a personnal descision that we as adults can take responsibility for. I bought a pair of Benbenstone pants at Synergenis last year, I was pulled in by my own vanity and the allure of hotness, only to feel really silly later as they were expensive and really not my personnal style. I had little personnal connection the the designers and found myself feeling that in this case, I valued the personal connection more than I had realized. We live in a vain culture that values beauty and youth (especially in women but again, that's another thread) it seems natural some of these values will end up in our pretty little subculture. Those pants still hang in my closet, never been outside. Perhaps I should look the whole system with which I am a part of for my feble attempt to climb the social ladder to the powerful and beautiful upper class hierachy of vanity with which I'll never be accepted into because of my age, weight, and finances...can I get a refund? Rather than classism, this seems like a phase or trend. Currently our tribe values astetics (vanity) over....music? dancing? PLURing? Many of us have noticed this, I've assumed the pendalon will shift as bodies change and values change, as they always do. The current trend is simply not sustainable. We're only young and beautiful for a short time, and then what? The young and beautiful people of the future are destined to become the old and ugly people of the past and will shift the trends in a new direction. Perhaps even away from loud amplified music as many of my friends, and myself, are noticing significant hearing loss from our bass addictions.... If the current values of this community are uncomfortable or upsetting to certain people, it seems like a nice time time to consider one's own life and personal value's. Spending time within a community whose values are not aligned with one's own is silly. Maybe it's time to build a subculture to the subculture that has complimentary values. Changing the values of an entire community to make some members more comfortable or to avoid hurting some people's feelings is ridiculous., not that anyone suggested such a thing! It's entirelly possible that we'll simply get bored watching these so-called beautiful people from the future play dress up at events and we'll collectively shift our energies to things that matter more to us. It's entirely possible that these beautiful people will themselves get bored of dressing up at events and move on into something else that is alligned with the ever changing values of the individuals. Our scene, tribe, community is beautiful inside and outside and free of so many of the painful realities of mainstream society: homophobia, violence, overt racism... We are all freaks, most of us without an Ivy League education. This is our safe space to be ourselves, and that self may sometimes be expressed as someone who is trying to look like someone else more beauitful or popular then they are for a moment...but this is not a massive scale classist culture with glass ceiling's of oppression being systimatically forced upon the lower classes who are powerless, ugly and poor but just happy to be included in something so great. Maybe I misunderstood but gosh, I am of the lower class so what do ya expect? hehe ; ) . |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 11:29 PM
taking responsibility and permission to rant
Wow!!! I am so thankful for this thread, and all the responses, which have been totally nailing it!
I’m not jumping on board to defend myself, as I am one of the artist who sells my art thru the medium of Fashion at most of the Festivals, and have found myself gypsying (Jet Setting), around the globe in response, to allowing my craft to be accessible to the public. I’m jumping on board in response to the fact that this “elitism’ which is spoken of has been a discussion among the“pusher’s” of the Underground Fashion ‘Scene’, and frankly we too, are over the whole ‘us and them’ mentality. My naivety is getting blown open, as I watch how our craft is contributing to a notion, which has contributed in positive and/or in negative ways, (depending on how you want to look at it), to the underground music scene. I’d like to offer some insight in respect to my personal process with this medium of work, in hopes to dis-spell the lack of understanding as to what’s happening behind the scenes of this Underground Fashion Industry. For the past five years I have been making art, in a little studio, as a form of therapy, self-discovery and meditation. Putting my angst, fidgetiness into form, to be in awe of the anticipation of the results…or simply seeing a vision so clearly, that there is nothing left to do other than get out of bed, in the middle of the night, and just fuckin cut and sew till the piece is finished. As I started sharing with others these finished pieces, to my delight and amazement, people were into it. Their enthusiasm fueled my own, and with this enthusiasm/ritual/creating/channeling, the natural continuation of this has been spilling open to a wanting public, and has enabled me to create a business thru my art. Over the years, how many crafters have blown me away; who, each had been, holing themselves in their modest studios, creating, with the same vision in mind. To offer something to people which wasn’t yet accessible, or simply did not exist yet. Over time many of us not only miraculously continued to build from these humble beginnings, but have managed to find each-other and continue working together, symbiotically linking up our common interest, and support each-other thru empathy and understanding. We have created a community thru the hard work and many, many hours, days, months spent, pushing up, against all odds to create our art, be supported by our art, and not give in to what society imposes upon us as humans: To work a 9 to 5 job, working for the MAN, drive home to the suburbs, to microwave our dinner and watch TV till passing out, only to wake up and do it all over again. Defying this has taken dedication, faith and a will of gold. Creating art, and I don’t care what shape it takes, is a back lash to what society sets us up to naturally fall into: -To be clones -NOT think outside the box. -‘Don’t look different’, -‘Don’t step out of line’, -And ‘Don’t express yourself freely, for you’ll immediately be singled out as a trouble maker and be heavily disciplined, until you step back into line, or suffer the consequence”, etc and en-fuckin- cetera. Personally, offering Nectar to the masses has been one of my greatest joys. One of the motto’s I work closely with in relation to my craft is that’ CHOICE EXISTS’, that we have choice at any given moment to be authentic, real, united, beautiful Or Judgmental, divided, vain or WHATEVER. Simply…. This is our right as human’s… either way that this choice DOES exists. We have been innately gifted with FREE WILL…. hellllooo!!YES!!! If someone buy’s a piece from me, they are showing me a recognition within themselves that they are choosing to express themselves, because it resonates with some part of them that feels good. They recognize what it is I’m working with and deeply appreciate it. In these interaction’s I meet people I otherwise wouldn’t get the pleasure of meeting and share intimate space with, (kinda like hitching). We exchange our thoughts and ideas with each other and it feels good! Just like that track you’ve heard in the distance at a gathering, and can’t help but start dancing to it. You do it cause it feels good. If I can promote expression, by any means necessary, Damnit! I’ll promote that shit. Cause it feels good!!! It didn’t occur to me that working with this medium of art, I was stepping into the blasphemous FASHION INDUSTRY, which, in my opinion, the MAINSTREAM Fashion Industry is one of the major sickness of our planet, (that and pornography… but this is an entirely different discussion, which I won’t get into at this time). The desire and hope, is to cultivate and infiltrate this system, with a new mode of conduct, WITHOUT competitveness, and with community in mind. We are young and learning as we go, and taking the lessons as they come. Steven, when I hear you speak of “the beautiful people of the future’, (which we ALL are, regardless of class, color, size or, creed), I heard very specific words to describe this: THIN, STYLISH, WEALTHY and YOUNG. This idea of elitism, feels to be the same form of ‘brainwashing’ and same ‘beauty myth’ “Mainstream Fashion”, has imposed upon us as ULTIMATE TRUTH and in your essay this TRUTH is being perpetuated, by buying into the belief that this reality exists at the top of the food chain. Are we still buying into this LIE as truth? If someone happens to fall into this category of being thin, young, and stylish, does this automatically makes them elite or snobs. Why are we still giving away our power to this ideal? That, this is what’s considered COOL There are so many forms of beauty which bring me to my knee’s on a daily basis, I run toward such beauty the same way a fly drowns in a light-bulb, which has absolutely nothing to do with feathers, leather and fedora’s. How has feathers and leather made it to the top of the food chain, anyway? If their were a group of people who were acting the same way as the crews who are wearing the feathers and leather, MINUS the leather and feathers and had scabs and warts all over their body, and had a peg leg, would we still be judging these people the same way? I wonder… If someone is feeling good cause they put on a little bit of eyeliner, or that perfume that smell’s soooo good, or feathers in their hair, or that pink g-string on their head, or paint their body, head to toe, in blue…by all means, let’em have it. Why should this be a threat to you or I, (you or I,ie; in general). Why are we giving our power away because someone else wants to wear leather pants. This is a deep and touchy subject, which reaches far beyond this teeny tiny subculture, of who’s in and who’s not, or whatever. Your hitting upon a deep issue, which has been in existence for long time, outside the music scene, which is so real, but the big ‘BUT’, is there are so many variables to this, and its really important that we don’t subjugate ourselves to the same hypocrisy that we are calling out upon other’s. There are so many layers to this silly game, so many intricate facet’s, which I’m happy to see acknowledged thru this thread, Such as: 1. Many people, who seem to be in a clique, have gotten to know each other over a span of many years and walked many roads together to build a foundation of trust and friendship. These kinds of bonds don’t happen over night. I’ll speak for myself, when I say it honestly takes a long time to cultivate these alliances. 2. Time and time and time and time again, I have been proven wrong of those who I easily judged in the past as SNOB’S, or are too cool for school vibes, are actually THEE shyest most introverted, socially awkward peeps I’ve met,. I will go on the record and apologize if I ever I have not taken the time to look up and give a smile to those who are simply seeking a smile in return. I’ll admit I get selfish with personal space, and am usually so deep inside the music on the dance-floor, that I’m either so deep in meditation with it that I’m oblivious to what’s happening around me, or I’m very purposefully pulling my hat down over my eyes so I can get deep with the energies dancing around me. Other times, I’m so busy facilitating at the Festival with something or other that there simply isn’t any time to stop and chitchat. Either way I’m open to shifting this and looking up, to making contact and share my love more. I CAN DIG IT! On a different note, I feel that we are living in a time when worrying about our separate-ness is out dated, and we need to be pulling our resources together, to bring on change in dramatic way’s. I’ve been looking into the lives of El Che Guerrera, Nikola Tesla, and Malcolm X, saying to myself what the fuck are we really doing. These people have moved mountains, why the fuck are we getting so caught up in “who likes me and who doesn’t and am I wearing the right thing”, blah blah blah’s. It’s time we start moving some serious mountain’s… together!… but that’s a WHOLE other rant. And finally on a side note, I am aware of the open handed cruelty, which exists on the planet, Festivals included. I’ve simply come to a place, where I CANNOT take it personally, and instead, offer compassion to those who feel the need to inflict their pain upon others, as difficult as this may be at times, and not be attached to the glance I was hoping for, or that others are hoping for. And, learning again and again, not to take myself so seriously in the face of all these silly games. Laughter being one of the greatest tools to defuse a situation were I think I’m supposed to be this or that, or here or there, when actually, truly, coming to terms with the fact that I am all of it, with a cherry on top! without wondering if the person next to me is noticing or not. I can simply give myself permission to BE, and once I stop TRYING, the people who I most resonate with come to me. Once again thank you Stephan for opening this thread. It’s been long over due. |
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Mon, October 1, 2007 - 11:34 PM
powerful words
to give voice to powerful eyes thank you for sharing this lens i thought it was food for thought and reflection but it seems like its more than a meals worth to digest keep the dialogue alive it is the process, of exactly this, and engaging in reflection and change (practise in consciousness and action) that moves us forward as communities or the neglect of it, that summons our stagnation or demise our collective journeys continue to unfold... |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 12:30 AM
Really, Stephen - who's Elitism are you Railing Against?
The 'peacocks'? Or is it False Profit?
Sometimes people point fingers at others when they don't want others to point fingers at them. The elitism doesn't need to be there. It's unnecessary and it's uncool. People think it makes them appear somehow cooler, but it just makes them look amateur. You're good kids, but so rife with insecurity, you have to put up all these defensive walls around your insecurities. It's *got* to go, Stephen. Baby, you've already arrived - you're not trying. Snobbishness is for people who haven't quite gotten there yet - and that isn't you. True insight and inspiration does not penetrate through walls. An authentic experience cannot be had when all input is checked, re-checked and then stamped and sorted - whether it be people or the way you choose to construct your reality. Without this, valid art will not be made. Period. And any experience you think you're having in this context will only ever be second-best. Fear has a way of checking enthogenic experience - and normal experience as well. Warm up! That means, invite a bunch of people that you don't really know or you think have snubbed to a party. Look them in the eye and ask them how they are. Engage people. *Then* we'll see how many people still say you're 'elitist'. |
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Unsu...
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 3:23 AM
Star Belly Sneetches
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 4:21 AM
A little story and maybe some selfdisclosure
off the top of my head and after skimming through this thread.
So I'm at the After Burningman Reno Pool Party, chilling by the pool in one of the cabana things and checking the scene. I notice a group of hot boys and girls rocking the feathers and trucker hat's grouping together and I'm sitting there thinking, "Hmm, they're hot, and they look like they're having fun. It would be nice to be a part of that." And then I was kinda jealous and resentful, 'cause I wanted to be looking hot and having fun, who the fuck doesn't. I drink some, I smoke some, I sit there feeling uncomfortable and jealous but also kind of happy since after a bit of hot happy watching, it is hard not to smile. Then came the moment that made the moment: Some genius flash of inspiration struck and a hot n' happy grabbed one of those velvet rope things, but where the rope is made of seatbelt. The kind they use to make the lines at the airport, right? So, they grab the thing and wrap it around their group of 6 or 7.....instant VIP room. Fucking brilliance. I loved it and still love it. But check it out: Right around the same time the people I was hanging out with decided to wander leaving me alone. I had a moment of anxiety until I realized, "Holy shit! I just became the most exclusive clique in the whole damn party. Eat your heart out.....everybody." Anyways, I've enjoyed talking with my wife about this post, and enjoyed reading the thoughts expressed, and wanted to share something that seemed relevant. I would also like to say that I will talk shit, be critical, be judgmental, and be exclusive. I'll happily do it to. I've trashed talked glitch-hop and feather truck hats to death, not because of my closed mind, but because I just don't like those styles of expression all that much. I feel like I should add the caveat that I am not El-Circo bashing right now. As proof: I think Random Rab's tunes and hand-tooled utility belts are fucking cool. I even like some glitch-hop and feather hats. If my critical negativity reaches you and it stings, I hope you take a deep breath and accept that your piercing, dancing, haircut, shoe color, or taste in art might is wackness to the highest degree. And then I hope you exhale and say, "Fuck it. This my shit. It's what I'm doing. I don't give a fuck and in fact I'm going to go right over there and say, 'Is this the piercing, dancing, haircut, shoe color and taste in art you don't like? Well you better get used to it because I am going to follow you around the party." You would have my eternal respect, gratitude, and hopefully friendship in return along with any and all whiskey I happened to have on me. For reals. Don't ever forget that we are all our own V.I.P rooms, and they are all having the best, most exclusive parties ever. I'll invite you to mine if you invite me to yours. Okay. One last thing, I promise. I have to know where Dustfish ranks in the hierarchy of cool kids. Just kidding. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 7:59 AM
as one of those blissful smiling trancers from sunday morning, i must say, the only real "cliques" we have in the psy scene on the west coast - are based on city, and that kind of clique is hard to dissolve for obvious reasons. however it is by no means negative. other than that, if you can stand to listen to psy for hours on end - we want you there stompin with us!!
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 8:54 AM
smart party promoters smile & welcome everyone
as a former hardcore intellectual snob I have compassion for these elitists
as all forms of elitism are really based on insecurity needing to make oneself feel superior to others in any form is this at core however sometimes it's just the social culture an individual finds themselves in and conforms to to be accepted in their local milleu (a few "alphas" decide who is cool and who is not and the rest follow along) baa baa baa didn't we all experience this in High School? and how many of the people who do this now were nerds back then? smile, laugh, have compassion & remember the REAL "beautiful people from the future" love unconditionally |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 10:13 AM
2 cents
I've been following this blog since around when it began and had already 60 responses. I started to try catching up with them all before posting which has become an impossible task tho i've enjoyed reading the two sides of the story I'm generally getting and it's actually a topic I've been familiar with in other ways for at least a decade in my own local dance community here in BC despite how there is also a very inclusive community vibe here at times.
To sum up this thread if it's possible I'd say it goes: There is a recognizable social dis-ease of separation that occurs in what is considered an "intentional" dance culture. It has turned many people off of what otherwise would be an amazing creative atmosphere that could also be directing a lot of change into the world. The other side of the coin is... there needs to be a filter to maintain trust and intimacy and to honor privacy, boundaries and that we each need to be powerful in ourselves to truly cut through the illusion of separation. Ok, that didn't quite hit it the way I wanted to but I wanted to skip ahead anyways to the solution-based side of things. And without making this all about me I wanted to say what has been attempted in various forms to serve as an intentional deliberate subterfuge to this social intelligence dilemma... From an 8 Circuits of Intelligence system model (Tim Leary/Robert Anton Wilson/Antero Alli) what is going on here is a karma mechanical issue with the Social Intelligence Circuit. Basically we all have this intelligence and it always needs to be developed or it will create havoc. On a personal scale this means being able to feel accepted by others and to go beyond territorial reflexes which breed aggression. The healthy expression of this intelligence would be ultimately to recognize the interdependence of the "circle of humanity" as Antero puts it. This is indeed hard when the numbers hit a certain level as has been repeatedly pointed out. Thus there have been numerous people throughout the past 10 years that I personally am aware of who have made it a point to craft sub-events of smaller numbers to hone the "family" vibe and keep it real. This could be from hosting potlucks to hosting councils. At a festival..good luck. It's just not as easy. But actually I have tried. I've hosted councils at Shambhala and Burning Man which have succeeded in some way in uniting networks, allowing what Lorin talks about, the discussion the sharing of ideas etc to occur outside of the socializing context and in a more contained and nurtured environment that is facilitated. Council is what keeps tribes together. It's where we go when things royally fuck up and something needs to be done. It's where we can integrate new comers and share the experience of the forbearers who helped build this shit we enjoy. It just doesn't happen enough. Years ago I was utterly inspired by the Gathering of the Tribes conference put on by Moontribe in LA which moved on to Earthdance Laytonville for a few years and dissolved. Similiarly Cloud Factory did conferences in SF. Conferences, workshops, councils. I would love to see this integration happen more but I recognize the challenge. It's not easy to sit and listen to others, especially people who aren't the most capable succinct speakers. It's not easy to carve the time out of doing creative things or just having a good time at a festival. It does seem kinda serious at times. I've been experimenting with council for several years trying to find the balance. I've had positive and negative experiences trying to offer this forum for connectivation at events noting that sometimes I'm mainly getting older people or younger people who are kind of new to the dance culture who are getting an orientation more or less. I'm left wondering then, where are all the promoters, the dj's, the artists,clothing designers, the music producers and all are. Don't they care about the culture enough to join together to discuss issues surrounding it face to face outside of clique-dom? Well, i understand. I live amongst enough of the culture to see where people's focus lies and I don't hold it against them because I see the good things people are doing. I just am saying this because perhaps it's something to consider. There is a culture of council seeking to help avert elitism and direct the energies we have, not just with talk but with action. Got to start somewhere though and talk is not always cheap, it can help build ties and often does. From blogs to councils..and maybe a documentary. Have to get going but thanks for revving things up on tribe.net which has lost some of the vibe for me lately due to a lot of promotion and not the same amount of substance that is so needed to give everything else value. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 11:31 AM
if this thread is a reflection of how our community can work together...
a few things:
1) i am complete embarrassed by the number of people who are calling the "beautiful people from the future" names such as "insecure" for dressing up and expressing their art and embracing beauty. its not their fault they're beautiful and create beautiful things and we idealize the beauty they embody. its digusting. people are following their hearts in the best way they can. give each other a break, we're all in this together. 2) i am embarrassed by the number of people who are calling those who have felt the pressure of the system "insecure" despite their courage in stepping forward as feeling shunned and claiming their own role in perpetuating the system. its digusting. people are following their hearts in the best way they can. give each other a break, we're all in this together. 3) let me try a reframe: our music scene (as described in my post) has been infected by mainstream american culture/capitalism/media/fashion industry, and it has had negative affects on us by creating social and economic barriers to uniting otherwise likeminded people. now, who disagrees with this? that's interesting debate. "we're secure, you're insecure" dialog is bullshit and void of compassion and not on topic in the least. i've noticed that most of these comments have been bashing one group of people or another, where my original post had no bashing in it beyond a bashing of the mainstream ideals (which i see as negative) that have made their way into our culture. so let's talk about how we have taken on the ills of the mainstream culture and how that hasn't served us and how we can free ourselves from the tyranny of the infected system. and get over the rest of this bullshit that people keep on dragging into this conversation. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 12:41 PM
How can we fence each other in....
This has been one of the most shattering disscusions I've listened to in my lifetime. It's the Yin and Yang of ourselves and the collective bringing about what we talk about; Change. It's seems like some of the true Watchers in this new blossoming scene are speaking the words which must be spoken. And how beautiful it is to see so many listen and then hold the stick and speak back.
I was introduced fully to this scene in 2003 at Shambhala in BC. I was one of the lucky ones to be brought to that magical gathering and shown the light and dark. We always forget that there is this comsic struggle happening every day, and that we should respect it. I was coming off of being an amateur DJ and participant in the end of the era of phish. I was skooled well I thought, but then Shambhlala happened. One of my first memories is of getting to BC and being taken to that site in that deep forest grove. My first meeting was with this tall long haired man by the name of Lorin. I had never met him, or even heard of him. His greeting was like a thousand suns of warmth. A true hug full of compassion. I went "who is this guy", to myself. Thought nothing of it and then Shambhala's lotus unfolded. The Beautiful People, the Sounds flowing through the forest. The magicians under the light in the "Living Room". The true talking between everyone. I was not denied one piece of love at that Shambhla. And thats the Gem I hold inside. This Scene is real and it's here and it's the new Era. New clothes, New Style, New Music, New Words, New Discussions, New Love. We are reprogramming all these old archetypes, which have been talked about here in this discussions. We're taking the old which has not worked and bringing in the new. People are so afraid of change, but it is all we are guaranteed. So let's charish change, but hold on to what has brought it. Free thinking, Free Being, Free Love, Free Sharing. We can not fall into these old patterns, but we're destined to learn from them. I've beeen a watcher in this proto Music/Breaks/Hip Hop/Jam/Intent Gathering Movement. It goes through cycles of ego, but we must just stay pure. We're not rich kids. We're "Gain Children". Our only commonness is we come from the earth and should support each other. This talk againsit the fashion. Watch "Baraka", Look at the fashion of the world. Support these designer who produce Art. Elven, Ghetto Futuristic Clothing is a stroke of art. As long as they are making pure, fair trade clothing give back to them. This goes for all the visual and musical artists as well. Support each other, don't segregate this world more. Festivals like Sonic Bloom have been pure. Haven't been to Shambhla since 2005, but the intent gatherings are still here. We are changing the world. Sonic Bloom powered it's generators with BioDiesel; that is Change. Talking here is instigating change. "Patcha Play" Pants makes pants by hand in Colorado and sells them for 60-80. Corps sell lower quality goods made in slave factories for more. That is change. Making music like Lorin, Shen, Glitch Mob, STS9, Tipper, Blutech, and Sphongle that make you question the fabric of our realities;is change. It's hard to fight the revolutionary thought process. We can't just go out and make Military Machines stop in conventional ways. We have to be So above and Below. Please just remeber to party and celebrate this life. Ethnogens(not drugs) and dancing are a part of our evolution; every anthopological record shows it. Be friendly to your family and strangers, but hold your energy in your vessel. Don't go beyond your comfort. Remember we're only human and have good and bad days. Souljorn |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 1:36 PM
to Mozaic...
LOL...
I read Lorins words and seriously....spot on. I saw him on Cinco de Mayo here in Boulder, CO, which to most people who live in CO., it is the snobby trustafarian elitist town hosting CSU. There was every walk of life at the party of 800. Not 1 person had attitude ...I handed out fliers for Dreamtime and talked to almost everyone----fucking amazing party and people. In NYC, parties always had 5 or 6 floors of music----breaks, house, hard techno, etc...-----and each floor had a different walk of life and look, but people only tried to out do each other by battling on the dance floor... I lived in Santa Barbara for one year. Here is where I 1st got a taste of snobbery. Because I was from NYC, I was trash, even to the immigrant house keepers I met. Un-Fucking-Believable, bro. I think it's a security blanket, for those who are so self conscious of themselves, to treat others as a lesser species or simply not worthy. I never felt the need to explain why this was because I thought it would be worthless to those who needed to hear it. That is why this blog confused me at 1st. We, who discuss this, for the most part, feel the same. How do we reach the others who we talk about here.....seems like we should be talking about how to change what we don't like instead of whining about the snobs and elitists. I did read many of the posts over the hour and many, including yourself bring up great points which I agree with whole heartedly.....now we just need to start to act on those words and encourage positive change. I only wish I was a part of that scene. San Fran holds memories of Dead shows and many special times for me in the past. Where has the vibe gone??? What influence has hip hop had on destroying the beautiful culture that once was the identity of San Fran??? I have been a breaks DJ for over 10 years and thank God I haven't witnessed this---it might have left a bad taste in my mouth. I hear all the glitch hop and IDM crap that has taken over the MP3 sites and I honestly don't see it lasting too long. Now, as every other music artist strives to do, I create my own music to share with people to create together, a scene with a positive vibe, where we all can "dance as if we were alone" together, smiling as our eyes connect.... Music has much to do with how people act and connect with each other in a scene and it is our responsibility as artists to create positive music, as well as the responsibility of the promoters throwing parties----but when it is all about making money-----everything else goes to hell....... Erin....I loved every word out of your beautiful mind----keep it up!!! Lorin.....you fuckin rock!!! There are so many people like myself who understand all the hard work, time, and energy you put into your music and touring. I know I couldn't do what you do, so thank you so much brother!! Mozaic......Peace to you and thanks for provoking me. It's nice to have a conversation about something tangible and worth change.....including how I word things, which I know aren't always appropriate. =) Post thought------As far as I'm concerned, if you go to a rave to look good, it's time to go home. If you go because your sneakers can handle another 8 hours of dancing, then you are the true scene, you are what all the snobby posers wish they could be because they might have cash, the best drugs, and look hot, but they really wish they could get down and dirty funky on the dance floor like you.....so keep your eyes closed, feel the groove and be on your journey to ecstasy and freedom of body and mind. I have made more friends in this scene by dancing freely and smiling than I ever could have by posing....... "Got To Get A Dancer"--- Mr. Kirk Peace |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:08 PM
dude. Don't bash the music. Your opinion on music has nothing to do with what Stephen is talking about.
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:33 PM
Ok. I really meant to reply earlier, but got lazy. sorry if the last post sounded a bit harsh.. imeant to say our opinions.
Stephen is not off the mark. There IS vanity and a hierarchy in our scene. If you cant see this, you are in denial. Many of the posts with differing views are also valid. I don’t think that people talking about what they see is bullshit. Identifying all the small things along with the big will help in formulating a solution. There is a lot of projecting and judging going around on all sides, a lot of shyness is misconstrued as snubbing, a lot of creativity mistaken for vanity, and unfashionable looked upon as unmagical. A lot of complexities within a simple framework. I’m not sure if what you might be thinking is really even possible at this point in our growth. Plur as it was forming was an idea. Not really a reality. I want to argue that for the most part, it only LOOKED like a reality to anyone who was new to it. Like how enamored people when first discovering groups that had the traits they were looking for at the time…before they get jaded and move on to something new. This is not a breaks /glitch hop problem These themes are a human problem What is happening here is not something that can be confined to our scene or any other, or even just this “American” system. Oh no...this is a much larger shit pile you have unearthed here. Even communists drink haterade. Our entire human population can be blamed for vanity and the perpetuation of premature judging along every line possible…be it race, wealth, political views, looks, taste, lifestyle, education, career choice, sexual orientation, etc. etc. etc. To generalize, in this scene its primarily fashion based or who you are. In psytrance, its how “psychedelic” you are, or how sophisticated your taste in psychedelic music is. In hip hop its how “real” you are. In religious groups, its how devoted you are, Bla bla bla. How can we get ourselves of these ways of behaving? One of the best questions. Ever. And when solved, can be the answer to forming real community on a worldwide scale. Hopefully this seed planted in this blog grows and blossoms. In the context of our scene…what can we do to foster a more community vibe? Maybe more group rituals before dancing? We can’t ingest chemicals together in a ritual unless we become a religion. Sooo…maybe a Giant game of duck duck goose before the speakers turn on? Everyone gets passed the mic to introduce themselves and something funny and nice about themselves? Can we even get everyone to participate in anything as a group? Maybe smaller parties? There are lot of creative people here. Im sure we will have a lot of creative ideas. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:40 PM
this isn't just about clothes and/or money
dressing in fabulous clothes is awesome and to be encouraged & obviously not everyone who is into fashion acts like this (interesting how some have taken this thread personally) |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 3:45 PM
>Maybe smaller parties?
LOLZ! Yah, then we can claw each other to shreds to get one of 50 tickets to a party where Lorin's spinning. Now THAT would be a change. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 4:00 PM
So Many Words...
and oh, man, I guesss I'm adding More. ~sigh~
MAYA!!! I am calling a maya alert on all of us...(and yes, yes - I am calling myself out as well, because, jeeeeez, I just sat here and read/skimmed a good huge chunk of this madness, myself.) Illusions, I say. Mental imaginings and group delusions shared by a family with too much time, too much money, and too much beautiful mental energy that is not getting put to good use. Where are the leaders in this community? Do they exist, beyond DJ's who provide musical backdrops and people who design clothing? I'm talking about LEADERSHIP. Sometimes I think that that is what is missing...and why we wallow in trivial matters so much as a tribe. WE ARE FUCKING POWERFUL PURE CREATIVE POTENTIAL... and we are focused on THIS???? (more than 100 of us!) sorry...no fuck that, I'm not sorry - But I sure don't mean to rant against all the ranting. That wouldn't serve Us. I just get upset by the fact that we (and that means ME as well) are STILL not making use of the incredible priveleges we have, and of all the available inspired, creative, postive change-making energy amongst us to create ...really - *anything at all* - on the planet (or even our little, teeny-tiny dance-world microcasm!) that is lasting, real, and of service in a way that is tangible beyond just "having a good time". Yes, of course, ALOT of us are doing it as individuals, but not as a huge group of tuned-in folks who could have a BIG impact. We sure know how to talk about it, though. Galactivate my eco-conscious-hemp-powered-fair-trade-shade-grown-cacao/goji-berried-soaked brain and fucking enlighten me, will you? What is real in all of this talk? Show me how this serves Us, exactly, and how we can take this HUGE pile of words, and use them to create change (ANY change) that we would like to see happen. All I can say is..until we figure that out, we just have to BE it. Whatever IT is, that we are upset that we are not seeing - whatever IT is that we feel the world needs more of. Ghandi was genuinely on it with that one, people - you know? "Be the change you wish to see in the world." It still holds up today...Read the bumper sticker, then Be it. Don't know how? Stay Open, and it'll come. Just BE it. seriously - can we do that? I got hooked for a moment on the drug of this topic - and I thought oooooohhh...I have so many things I could *say*, here. This issue is *so important* in our "scene" and oh yes yes yes my friends and I have noticed this too....and, ooooooooh classism, feathers, tutus, cliques, oh it is all so *engaging*.... but the reality is that all these little kitchen-table conversations happening across the bay area do nothing more than harm us - they distance us all further from UNITY and further ingrain these ideas in our heads. I don't "belong" to any of these crews, and yet I know alot of the people mentioned as aquaintances and friends,... because I love to dance my ass off and I've been showing up for these events for years. Sometimes this issue does bug me, and it is really, truly *up* for alot of folks right now. Which means that if we focus on what is *really going on* under the surface in people's hearts, we might actually get somewhere! So let's fucking rock this, people - I don't care if my earnestness is uncool - if ANY of us really want to create a new vibration in our scene, let's meet up. Let's create new events that foster closeness and connection. Experiences, not shows. Live music mixed with dj's,the things that really touch and open our hearts, a space where people can hear each other speak and have actual conversations that build connection and trust and understanding of differences, share food, etc...somwhere that isn't a bar or club...(does anyone remember the noodle factory and CELL space?) Let's do what neighboring tribes did back in the day - and have a meeting of the minds, so that unspoken tensions don't create warring factions...like this. Anyone? Otherwise, honestly...this scene is just a few steps away from getting swallowed up in the pages of history. It's getting dark and jaded and drug-drenched...let's MOVE and shine some light on this stuff. let's create a new one. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 4:11 PM
I don't think anyone's saying that fabulous people are insecure people...
Hell naw. I mean, I'm fabulous. I'm not insecure - not inasmuch that I must be a snob. No - what these people are saying is that snobbery is insecurity. Plain and simple. Fabulousness - that's all part and parcel of being beautiful. To me, snobs are never beautiful. So when you say, 'beautiful people from the future', that means beautiful on the inside, too. And it shines through. No, people who play dress up but have to be mean to people, that isn't beauty. That's insecurity.
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 4:13 PM
and...
If God invited you to a party
And said, "Everyone in the ballroom tonight Will be my special Guest", How would you then treat them When you Arrived? Indeed, Indeed! And Hafiz knows There is no one in this world Who Is not upon His Jeweled Dance Floor. ~ Hafiz. Thank you, Stephan, for opening Pandora's Box. Yes, most of us got off-topic for sure. It's what happens when you invite heartfelt discussion. We've all got something to say on this matter, and we all went wildly across the board with our own thoughts and feelings. Maybe if we stir all of them together, and take action in our own lives, something alchemical will happen, the next time we gather. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 4:48 PM
A pretty butterfly flits past a frog. The frog says "That butterfly looks down on me because I'm green and not orange"
But the butterfly doesn't even notice. Its too busy fluttering around and enjoying the beautiful, sunny day. Both the butterfly and the frog are in the forest. And the forest is BURNING DOWN around them. Does the frog still care what color he is not? Does it matter what the butterfly thinks? |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 5:29 PM
more thoughts from me, although this seems to have been put through the wringer more than a few times....
1. i agree a lot with comma (way back there in the comments) and others that have said that the use of the word "classism" here is a bit off ... if you're reading this on a home or personal computer (unless you're at a public library) and you attend enough parties to even know WTF is being talk about here, we're all in the same "class" - it's bourgeois/bo-bo/leisure/middle class - with enough time and money to blow on parties and clothes and drugs that it's becoming a PROBLEM. the income and cultural gaps between most people in this little subculture is not enough to consider them separate classes. are there cultural issues WITHIN this class?? hell yes, and we've been talking about a lot of them here. should, as Lorin suggests, some of this time and money we're spending on parties and drugs and clothes be spent on other issues, helping other classes? hell yes. and, it's true that maybe if we weren't all spending so much time navel gazing, we wouldn't get so caught up with all this and would be way more grateful (as many have pointed out, we should be HELLA grateful) for what we've got here and NOT let it implode like the flower-child movement of the late 60s did for similar reasons. 2. "Nothing is more bourgeois than being afraid to look bourgeois." -andy muthafuckin warhol. is the best quote i've ever read - and boy do i identify with that a lot myself. damn - snap! 3. thx to who ever brought up the Star Belly Sneetches - hits this all on the frickin' head, and what genius piece of work that is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...eetches.22 4. on the opposite end, i also disagree with comma and those who have insinuated that this conversation is worthless and vain in and of itself - any time people have this much to say, it's important that it be said. thanks again to stephen for putting himself ( and, by default, FP) on the line for this. although it honestly makes me sort of ill, thinking of all these bad vibes floating around parties and dancefloors, and makes me ashamed and embarrassed for parts of my community and my own life, it also makes me more determined to do what i can to make events i am at and part of more opening, welcome, and positive, and hopefully not become elitist and insular and somehow reach BEYOND this bubble of a community - to me, that is what we REALLY need to be working toward. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 5:43 PM
Can you spare some Change?
I believe that the essence of what you are describing in your essay is what I would call the Shadow side of the community. (people.tribe.net/msfine/bl...456fc994).In regards to your essay there is no right or wrong. You expressed something that you felt you saw and that others confirmed. It is. You expressed what I personally have experienced, that people are tired of the snobbery (either being victim of it, associated with it or being the culprit) which does tend to be based on associations and fashion sense. You called it as specifically as you could so people could have reference points. The flip side of that is now when people talk about it they are referring to it as that and it is perpetuating what you would like to abolish, because before it was a phenomenon spoken about privately (accepted even). Now we see if people actually do something about it. Based off of their own public admissions, we are all aware (personally I think it was a conscious choice by people in most cases), its being accountable for that and proactive about it that really counts. I also don’t recall you saying what actual research you did? It is possible that I am so overwhelmed with the amount of information and heart pouring in this that I could have missed it? How are you going to supervene this now that you have your theory? What it comes down to for me is awareness and courage for one to confront what makes them feel strongly as it is important to trust yourself and your intuition. It is also important to go outside of your comfort zone, and explore your current boundaries. If the desire is to change the current norm, then it would be a great phenomenon if everyone at each event made an effort to genuinely interact with someone they would normally hold in a level of contempt. Each person takes responsibility for their own actions and self so that a shift would naturally occur. Doing this with a tone of self awareness to check why you would normally have those reservations and whether they really are serving your greater purpose. Do the same for your current habits, why want to have the fun new fashions and go to the 'place to be' for the weekend, or lush out constantly, or think that your anything less then anyone else if you don’t? I’ll bet the number one answer is still FOR THE MUSIC, or there is an inherent issue you are not dealing with and it is holding you back. I personally love checking myself or having people in my life that will be brutally honest. So that anything I do is in fact a conscious choice. Yet I have heard these self righteous people who have never spoken to me call me an ego-maniac while standing next to me, then give me stink eye. Wow, ignorance abounds sometimes. Fortunately so does love and courage. Having the courage to face yourself and work on your faults and therefore naturally increase your beauty inside out. When you talk about a problem and never bring it to the people who make you feel so strongly you are robbing them of the opportunity to learn from you, and you to learn from them. In the end I respect individuals, and their process. I love hearing all different views and psychologies, to me it is one of our greatest gifts as humans. The other greatest gift is being able to support and foster each other’s growth, and this earth's. One of the main magic that I see around this community is that we have a burning desire to break old patterns and do everything for ourselves. We make our own music, our own clothes, our own forms of healing, our own style of events, our own trends, it is all such a perfect path to the consciousness that we also know we are on the verge of embracing fully, one lifestyle at a time. We are all on the same damn team. Doesn’t mean we all have to do anything any one way or demean others because they do. I love every piece of clothing I have from any of our local designers. It means a lot to me personally that it’s unique, and that I know them and love them and in most cases worked or traded for it. More importantly even that I am supporting the lifestyle of local off the grid and its from the heart. I love the joy of going to a sample sale or trunk show and sipping on a cocktail and seeing what talent is being put out there, even if I don’t buy anything money. I respect the art. I also love the hell out of a hoodie and some jeans. Fashion is certainly its own beast, but integrity within a pure heart to express personal style (or not as long as you have the first two) always prevail over that shit. Unfortunately, cost of living is expensive as hell here, and that is what drives prices more so then the fact that they are targeting a certain class (although for a fashion designer couture is the ultimate and don’t knock them for trying to get their dream molded and on the shelf). With the tiny amount of people who embrace this style compared to the rest of the nation targeting such a small group forever would be a really silly career move. Also making things from scratch is expensive, time consuming, and then to have to include cost of living into it. Well. We have this funny fear of the mainstream, but it is the mainstream that would drive costs down for us if and when they finally do catch on, I really can't wait to see how that goes as we are the leaders of the new lifestyle. I feel I have had nothing but organic experiences and connections. Everyone I know in our inner smaller circles I have met thru another person I knew or from a truly genuine interaction, I do not feel I am a social climber or there to be the coolest. I may know of you by seeing you out or thru tribe or an obvious association but it is my pleasure to let connections that are supposed to happen as they will. I do however have pursuits and the ability to recognize who might be able to best contribute to them or who might also benefit from them. I will often act on that. I love meeting new people, all over, in all situations especially airports. I have been partying for sometime but only in the last two years have I really felt myself in the vortex of this community, most everyone new to me in the last two to three years. We go to where we all are because it’s where we all are supposed to be right now. I am focusing on putting more positive energy out and focus on bringing something positive and unique to this community that easily unites and crosses all mentioned and unmentioned sub-genres, although that may seem naïve and inevitable. We have nothing but time. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 5:49 PM
Thank you all.
Thank you for the space to express and being a part of this beautiful now.
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 5:57 PM
anyone have a good knowledge of counter-culture movements and their history in the U.S.?
I have a feeling what people are experiencing within the S.F./WestCoast Burner Party Crew scene has happened many times before. Can anyone back that up or refute it?
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 6:29 PM
also
has, or is anyone doing any serious critique or study of the artistic, aesthetic, cultural movements we are talking about? Any serious scholars out there wanting to do some research, analysis? Ping me. Even if it is just to discuss the possibilities.
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 7:24 PM
Sym-bi-what?
The Forest is BURNING DOWN... Well said...
As an event producer I am not working for an “elite” class of people. Symbiosis Gathering aims to create an experience that is transformative and inspiring, based in a deep respect for our community and environment. We seek to provide a space for the fusion of aesthetics, sound, and natural living, in an atmosphere of interactive co-creation. Symbiosis Events facilitates the transformation of consciousness for anyone. We provide a structure for people to experience. We have booked some pretty great music crossing many genres and held a space conducive to the creation of community. We have vendors who use organic ingredients. We reduced trash by 70% from last year by creating a volunteer dish washing station and doing mad recycling. We used electric golf carts. We had biodiesel generators and solar power for the vending. Symbiosis serves the feather people. Symbiosis serves the trancers. Symbiosis serves the jam band kids. Symbiosis serves the punks. Symbiosis serves the Okie folks. Symbiosis serves the internationals. Symbiosis serves… You want to come over and help out? The door is wide open. That’s the point of Symbiosis. We are not excluding anyone who isn’t interfering with our right to assemble and evolve. If you want some other clothing lines to be showcased, BOOK THEM! We booked vendors who want to vend and who paid for their spots. Actually… we need help with our merchandising. Then we could have another choice. SYMBIOSIS GEAR!!! It is truly an honor to have Symbiosis (the website is symbiosisgathering.com not symbiosis.org) be the event that broke the camels back and its phenomenal that there are so many people that feel the need to confess their personal attitude about the way in which people are dressed… BUT THE FOREST IS BURNING DOWN… If the food is too expensive, lets tell GW to get the f@#& back home. Let’s stop spending billions of dollars to private military contractors to guard oil reserves… Let’s start making biodiesel. Let’s start creating local currencies. Let’s look at land owning possibilities and create nodes of permaculture and sustainability training. Let’s create Symbiosis. We don’t work for a group of elite people. Symbiosis Events production is a group of 7 people pedaling a bike as fast as we can moving our inertia forward to reach a critical mass of sovereign paradise. We are earth shifters… What are we going to do about it? Music transcends boundaries. Trance parties happen all over the world. We could connect with these people. We just need something to say. When do WE become THEY? When do THEY become WE? If you want to create community let’s not steal DJs (Avant), let’s create opportunities for conscious evolution, let’s talk away from the music, and let’s put that freaking ‘don’t judge a book by its cover’ shit to good use. Come out and help us transform consciousness one thought at a time. Wear whatever clothes you want, just be prepared to get your hands dirty… There is plenty of stage for everyone… |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 7:31 PM
Plur Nasty----
Talk about getting of the path. Why don't we talk about how monkeys have a system of hierarchy......jeez.
"How can we get ourselves of these ways of behaving? One of the best questions. Ever. And when solved, can be the answer to forming real community on a worldwide scale. Hopefully this seed planted in this blog grows and blossoms. " I'm not sure I follow you here. What exactly are you trying to say???? I think you should start a new blog and devote to your worldly concerns....... "dude. Don't bash the music. Your opinion on music has nothing to do with what Stephen is talking about." It's not bashing, it's my opinion and I am entitled to it so deal with it. I believe music has as much to do with the scene as anything else driving it.......dude---it is a music scene after all. Music influences more than you might think and we do need to take a look at that as well as everything else discussed here. "What is happening here is not something that can be confined to our scene or any other, or even just this “American” system. Oh no...this is a much larger shit pile you have unearthed here. Even communists drink haterade." This shit you talk about seems to have been unleashed in your head, but I think most of us are trying to stay focussed and keep the conversation limited to the scene and how some things within it are out of control. "To generalize, in this scene its primarily fashion based or who you are. In psytrance, its how “psychedelic” you are, or how sophisticated your taste in psychedelic music is. In hip hop its how “real” you are. In religious groups, its how devoted you are, Bla bla bla." Talk about bashing.....why don't you generally just tell the whole world to fuck off......you are so off here. You cannot simply generalize and state the shit you do ----( in this scene its primarily fashion based or who you are )---this isn't gonna make it for a rational point. It is unbelievably vague and honestly, a worthless, extremely judgmental statement. Do you go to hip hop shows??? and psy trance parties?? and church??? and talk shit about them as well???? Special, real special.... "Stephen is not off the mark. There IS vanity and a hierarchy in our scene. If you cant see this, you are in denial. Many of the posts with differing views are also valid. I don’t think that people talking about what they see is bullshit. Identifying all the small things along with the big will help in formulating a solution." Seriously...who are you arguing with??? Who is in denial??? I am so confused after reading that....I think I'm getting a migraine. |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 7:34 PM
i am ignorantly going to guesss that:
yes...i think this has happened and will happen in any kind of scene, social unit, etc...ESpECIALLY young/artistic/music/art scene...
we humans are super dramatic, both intentionally, and unintentionally. i have seen this kind of saga so many times before. its great to call it out, bring it to the surface, analyze, discuss, and grow. and again, whats way more crucial: whats being done in our names, with our tax money RIGHT NOW in Iraq, Iran, South America, Uganda, Haiti, Burma, etc etc i am full of love for the substance of brainjuice being squeezed and squirted about right now. i dont give a rats azz about tribe/net gossip usually, but a friend texted me about this thread, and ive seen emails and links about it since the underground communication tour, ive been working on this kind of discussion forum thing (jokingly called bassnetwork) that will be launched soon to discuss all kinds of topics like this...hopefully stephen will be a part of that, as well as all yall. where ever it happens, MORE PLEASE |
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 7:34 PM
ps
check out the Moon conjunct Mars( in Cancer) opposite Pluto (cusp of Sag/Cap) and the Saturn conjunct Venus (Leo Virgo) opposite Neptune (aquarius)... as above...
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Tue, October 2, 2007 - 10:40 PM
thank you ALL
i just want to say that i am grateful to hear every individual's unique perspective of truth.
i hear and witness everyone and i think everyone is completely right on. i love hearing everyone's opinions, and i do this is a meaningful dialogue and i am grateful that it was initiated. thank you KEVIN for your insightful sharing about Symbiosis!! |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 12:58 AM
I understand... of course it is upseting for superficiality to become a part of this scene, this movement, this way of life... that has at it's core the total opposite of superficiality, a credo of total acceptance of artistic expression and personality, whatever it looks like...This underground music/dance movement that we love & live for is by it's very nature, non-judgmental.... That is why it is necessary to have a certain sense of humorous irony about all of this. When this element of cult of personality and superficiality seeps in makes it's ugly little appearance .... be aware of it, take note it, reject it, maybe even have a snicker or two, but let us not take it too seriously either. Humility is the antidote. After all, you get out of it what you put into it. <3 LOVE
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 9:03 AM
There are huge generalizations going on (like where does the ELM crew fit into the feather-n-leather crowd?) but I love reading people's perspectives...especially the perception that there is some kind of all-encompassing credo in "the scene" and, in fact, that there is something called "the scene" at all. I remember - waaaaaay back in the rave days of '91-'92 - some friend of mine talking about "the scene" as if we were all in the same "scene." Her and her friends were a bunch of crystal-snorting trend-jumpers who were never into the music but into the idea of "being cool," so I always found her references to "the scene" a bit disingenuous....
Point being: We all have different reasons for being here. Respect diversity, celebrate our differences, then come together to DANCE! |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 9:10 AM
Lorin--"whats being done in our names, with our tax money RIGHT NOW in Iraq, Iran, South America, Uganda, Haiti, Burma, etc etc ."
The part about this thought is that yes, we as middle class citizens are taxed to the boot, but all the rich bastards in this country get mad tax breaks.....Just think of how well off this country could be if we all paid our 40% at the end of the day....and why will this this harsh reality never change??? Sorry for getting off the track.. Last thought on this topic----In 1991, I was the only kid in my town going to NASA, a small underground party in SOHO. Everyone thought I was retarded, but the scene for those 1st few years as it blossomed and grew, was beautiful and it truly was a tight knit community. Sure, everyone was on E or acid, but who cared---we all had fun together and no one ever left thinking," man... what a bunch of posers and snobs.." By 1993, there was a huge shift.....the mob had caught on to this growing trend and wanted in. The famous Full Moon parties hit NYC like an atom bomb and what used to be parties of a few hundred kids turned into 5 or 6 thousand over night. Everything changed and my scene was destroyed..... It was destroyed and at 1st, it sucked.....but a new scene was born which looked much different on the outside with new faces and styles and problems----but the core of the culture did NOT change. Most of us were there to get fucked up and party and dance till the next afternoon....and we did. Over 15 years later, I have witness so many sub cultures, changes and shifts in the scene----elitism, candy, "classism" if you must call it that, gangsters, hippies, yuppies, geeks, fire dancers, mimes, break dancers, freaks, house, techno, funky breaks, acid breaks, nuschool breaks, psy trance, IDM, glitch------it's the never ending growth in this culture that can only be inspiring because it is ours and we have the freedom in this country to do with it what we please, be it a positive or negative shift. I am thankful, to say the least, to have been a part of this from day 1 and thankful for all the beautiful people I had the chance to dance with ....so fuck all the bullshit and just be-----cause really, what else is there??? |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 9:44 AM
EDIT---->
Lorin--"whats being done in our names, with our tax money RIGHT NOW in Iraq, Iran, South America, Uganda, Haiti, Burma, etc etc ."
The part about this thought that kills me the most is that yes, we as middle class citizens are taxed to the boot, but all the rich bastards in this country get mad tax breaks.....Just think of how well off this country could be if we all paid our 40% at the end of the day....and why will this this harsh reality never change??? The upper class are not the ones fighting and or watching their children be killed....it's the middle and lower classes----so sad how we are treated by the gov. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 10:07 AM
Just a start
So the question seems to be at the beginning of this thread – besides the audacious request that we admit that we are perpetrators – (WTF is the frakking Spanish Inquisition? – Don’t you think that there is enough guilt in the world without adding a few more scoops? BTW, People frak up all the time – It’s called being human – Nope – we are neither robots nor gods – Yet! Soon hopefully!)
------ Is how do we (as a scene, culture, tribe) remedy the isolation factor brewing in a culture that espouses the ideal quality of unity of purpose and world perspective. Say Hello. Look over to your unknown earthen soul mate and ask “hey, what’s up – enjoying the music, isn’t this E killa, got a smoke, make out with me, hold my hand, I need a hug, touch my ass – isn’t it firm.” – There are so many options – Point being – do one! This is a culture that prides itself on breaking silent taboos and going forward where ancient humans have gone before. So say “hi” and strengthen the original web – Humanity. We know how to do this well on the Playa – If someone needs a hand, you give it – “can I help you with that?” Lift a box – tighten a screw – that’s how we do. It take no great debate or opening up your rib cage to make this work – Everyday human activity is the stuff of lore and magic. Do you think they want fashionable isolationists in the 5th dimension? This is the big coat check at the grand door – hang your shit up and leave it behind. Travel light as light. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 10:17 AM
Factoid:
This current thread – at this very moment, when placed in a Word document at Ariel 12pt type is – 131, 8 ½ X 11 sized, pages long – And you can double that if this were reprinted in paperback. – I’m stretched for time as it is!
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 10:36 AM
A start - and I'm serious
Beautiful People from the Future – God that phrase makes me smile and laugh.
But what does "beautiful" and "future" mean – why does it have such a draw? Could it be that we all want to be where “IT” is at? And these two elements in our culture, amongst others, are a primal or symbolic road sign to a supposed center of being. A completeness. An acceptance. A cascading waterfall of love and connection in the rock-n-roll hall of fame of - yes – you are the shit. Perhaps say unto your counter culture fellow evolutionary when they are down: “I see you and you are recognized as one of the heroes that came to the 21st century of earth and made a stand against the imperial forces of slavery and homogenization with a green sustainability twist. Good on you mate! – You did what you were born to do and have taught others well in the same fashion – spreading one heck of a virus meme that we are all actually characters in a Star Wars hologram ushering in a new phase of humanity that vibrates at a higher oscillation – that of solar gods.” Do you feel better now. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 11:01 AM
For those of you unfamiliar with Dr. Seuss' "The Sneetches", here's a little blurb from wiki:
"The Sneetches" By Dr. Seuss Sneetches are a race of odd creatures who live on a beach. Some Sneetches have a star on their bellies, and in the beginning of the story the presence or absence of a star is the basis for discrimination. Sneetches who have stars on their bellies are part of the "in crowd", while Sneetches without stars are shunned. In the story, a "fix-it-up chappie" named Sylvester McMonkey McBean appears, driving a cart of strange machines. He offers the Sneetches without stars a chance to have them by going through his Star-On machine, for three dollars. The old star-bellied Sneetches are furious until McBean tells them about his Star-Off machine, costing ten dollars. This escalates, with the Sneetches running from one machine to the next, "until neither the Plain nor the Star-Bellies knew whether this one was that one or that one was this one or which one was what one... or what one was who." This continues until the Sneetches are penniless and McBean leaves a rich man. In the end, the Sneetches learn that neither plain-belly nor star-belly Sneetches are superior, and they are able to get along and become friends. The story is an obvious parable for the cycle of fashion and how snobbery and insecurity drive consumerism to consumers' own detriment. It contains the messages that all people regardless of race, class or clothing, are equal, and that the human temptation to judge people by their appearance or by the company they seem to keep is full of pitfalls. It may also have deeper connotations of racial discrimination. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 11:40 AM
Is not all about the fashion and looking hot. Everyone likes to look good, and if you can because of money, gifts, or hand-me-downs or pure luck than WEAR IT if it makes you feel good, create.
I will admit that I am atracted to beauty, of course first on the outside, but, I tend to undress people with my eyes and if the beauty is not within as well, then, I would give you the benifit of the doubt, but may not let you close in my life. It love beautiful people that are beautiful on the INSIDE, not how you dress. I love watching people on the dancefloor in there silly outfits doing their silly dances out of there freaking gourd, I might laugh, but it's because it's incredible and I love it. I love that they have the balls to do it and be free without caring what other people think, props to you. I love everyone's beautiful style, sometimes it can get too much when everyone is wearing the same thing, but I am sure in the 80's we all wore acid washed jeans, big hair, mullets and tails, heavy meatal shirts, jelly shoes and bangles. Try going back to when I grew up, they still wear jeans and bum equiptment sweatshirts, sometime you still see cavarichies (spelling) and big hair is still in. People sometimes separate or gather in their own comfort zones and as they get more comfortable they grow or stay where they feel comfortable. Some people won't give others the time of day because they are either too fucked up, shy, didn't realize you were trying to get there attention or they may truely be to assholes. As much as it sucks that everyone can't get along this is the way it is and has been my entire lifetime and for generation before. It would be nice if we could all get along, but that is a feat in itself, what would the world really be like, different. At least now most people take more showers than once a week. Imagine the dancefloor then, you really start to see the room separate. You would be surprised that if you see someone that you usually feel like you get the cold shoulder from or feel intimidated by, when you walk by smile or say hello, you might just get a response. Try it. I have been surprised myself and have made really good friendships out of it. Instead of just bashing everyone for being "too cool", maybe there is a reason behind it, everyone can't be an ego maniac. In this crazy fast paced world sometimes people are just too wrapped up in there shit to recognise that someone is reaching out. If you reach out and there is no hand to grip you, try not to take it personal, it will be one less thing to be negative about and stew on. Move on and try with someone else. We are human and we all have good and bad days. There is an old Native American Prayer I have always had hanging in my house since a child and it reads: "O Great Spirit, grant that I may not judge another, until I have walked a mile in their moccasins. " Think of what you have been through in in your life, others may have had it the same or worse. We are all just growing and growing up and trying to heal....all the bashing hurts and it doesn't help the process. I do appreciate this blog for bringing out alot of valid points and giving peopel a bit to think about. We all matter. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 12:19 PM
so stephen..
Where do I fit in in your "Class" system? Please ASSIGN me a place- I didn't know about this...shit... I must have been in the wrong line...
(crap... I don't have enough time- so i'm just going to do an initial spew and come back) I guess that'd be under "promoter" or "servant" to what you've classified as the elite (boy- thanks for putting all of this in categories- else i wouldn't know which way to climb- because- that's the point right... trying to get where you don't think you are?? ) They let me walk among them because I can do something for them... not because they actually genuinely like me or that I might resonate with something inside of them- that I in turn want to share with other peeps. It's all about what other people think is going on... Thanks for making this clear. Wait- I had a fedora- but now I like my baseball cap w/ feather in it better- is that wrong?? Those leather vests are cool- but I can make my own and it would be more unique.. And the TuTu Faery is my friend- and I like her because she is sweet , funny & ridiculous. And the el circo kids- damn- they suck because they do what they love to do- put it out there and then are judged & ridiculed by- those who don't. This world sounds MUCH better- sign me up. Oh & BTW I don't like trance music... in fact- i detest it- i just find it boring and redundant... does this make me uncool?? And I don't wear day glo... but maybe if I buy some REALLY expensive BLINKY toys- I will be accepted into this community?? After all- it is the most widely accepted form of music... Why oh WHY can't I like what everyone else does?? Please- I am waiting to be placed (Judged) into your "CLASS" system- so I can start my social climbing ASAP-(because I am not happy where i am- i want to be somewhere/someone else) because I'm not secure enough with myself to express myself and own who I am- no matter if I have money, or what kind of music I like- or clothing I wear. and people- it's all about the music you like which determines this... I never dance on the trance stage even if I LIKE the music- because there are HUGE cliques of the day-glo peeps- who only talk amongst themselves. They have so much power... it's mainstage after all. Please people- take responsibility for yourselves. This isn't the playground. YOU are creating the divide- not "THEM". You choose your place- and this well written hoopla is just that. It's YOUR perception. If a person is a jerk- they are a jerk- it doesn't matter what they wear. All this bullshit comes from people wanting what they don't have and insecurities...and projecting fears & false impressions: This whole "classism" shiznet can't exist w/o that- PERIOD. What it comes down to people: DO WHAT YOU LOVE, OWN IT, and then why would you care what other people do or think about you? Be yourself- find the peeps you resonate with and call it good. Stop pointing fingers- dammit and realize... WE ALL HAVE SOMETHING TO CONTRIBUTE- and each link in a chain- is just as important as the next. geeez. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 12:54 PM
Spme basics
Why People don’t talk to strangers – even when it is safe to do so.
Some factors: 1. To some degree people are shy. 2. Artists, business owners and performers need/have to network to sustain their craft and so the visual identifiers of cloth, feather and leather let a certain style of individual navigate quickly and communicate with those in their financial business. We are a funny and intelligent group that wishes to ride a fine line of many realities into one. Meaning we want tribalism, sustainability, conciseness and capitalism. But mostly we're sorting out the business of being human. I’ll say here that Peacocking is good! – cause we all love to stimulated by attraction and have sex - anyone that needs to put that in the closet can- but we’re are millions of years in the making and we got here by fucking – an act which has perpetuated biological traits of how we like to “get off”. Angelic super-consciousness and “do good-ing” purity is, at times, and invention of our own creative mind – just as real any another form of mental jacking off – and there is no judgment with that. Everything around us is a chemical reaction ejaculating to the hum of life exploring life. What’s hilarious, as has been said many times in this thread, is that this conversation happens all the time when you get any individual that you have described in this thread alone or in a small group. But when were all in a group dance – it’s like a sleep comes over all of us and we all play out the old tunes – tunes of societal order as you have suggested. I have even seen, with sober eyes I might add, timelines from ancient Sumeria and Egypt, playing themselves out in the 21st century. Kings, Queens, Bishops, Earls, Dukes, Duchesses, etc. Everyone has something to sell. It’s the bizarre bazaar of Planet Earth. These wares also include emotions. Emotions are one of the highest commodities (and oddities) in this part of the galaxy. Once a scene, and it’s style is born, so too are an array of new emotions. If you don’t like the smell – don’t buy. Another factor to all of this is the secret or open drug usages and in some cases functioning abuses. Sometimes people don’t say hi cause they’re really HIGH and six worlds over getting a back rub from a tentacled fish lord from the Nabo-tingwa-click-click sector. – I should know – that shit feels good! This past Burning Man I can’t tell you the amount of times I looked straight into the eyes of those in the scene I‘ve known for years and they couldn’t tell who the hell I was. Deer in the headlights – oh dear! That’s ok, I’ll bitch-slap you later for being such a wastoid. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 1:01 PM
Astro girl----
Signs, signs, everywhere is signs.........
Where would we be or know where to go without signs and labels???? |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 1:13 PM
Astro girly girl------
You should listen to yourself sometimes-----so much hatred and belittlement in your wordstoward this thread.....but you are here for what reason????. Why must you lumps everyone in this thread together??? ---Calling us people--- WTF is that crap??? The very thing you bitch about, you do to "us people".....crazy retarded it really is!!! Many of us have different opinions, do you not see that?? You sit here telling us you provide a service to people who only use you for your service......and you put up with it to make money----does that make you a whore??? From my eyes it does.. It is obvious you need to read the spirit of what is being said here and regroup your thoughts...It's like if we have an opinion, we should all just keep our mouths shut so we don't annoy you......
jeeeez is right. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 1:13 PM
No corruption - no purity
.:.Kala.:. – I really get what you’re saying – If we focus on the problem – all we get are more problems and bad government funded programs to try and solve them – rather than focus on the solution. But the first step, which perhaps all of this is – is to, how do they say it – break the silence (and isolation of separate conversations on this topic) and admit we have a problem going on and all the supposed movement of “the movement” is in the mud.
Some believe that we can’t move forward as a species until ALL of us move forward. What does that mean to our group? I see one of our goals as having a stronger economy. To be taken seriously as a culture that contributes. We live in this world, the world of communications and global exchange. What is our value to the larger whole? How do we plug in rather than pretend we are not “of it”? Stephen - I do not believe a “corruption” from the “outside consumerist world” is taking place – that our values “have been degraded”. This story of human fallibilities is from time immemorial. It is the stuff of spiritual paths undertaken by individuals and communities to better “know thyself.” And to put that learning into everyday practice in the everyday humdrum of where you are now. We are consumers – but consumers that can make informed and empowered choices – especially as we create our own entertainment, clothing, communication networks, and fuel. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 2:12 PM
darkstar...
I'm kind of amazed at this whole thing. Take it or leave it... like i said- i spewed-as i couldn't have possibly read the whole thing- but i do have a jist and my own ideas which i take FULL responsibility for.
That was a flip reaction to all of this.. It simply doesn't make sense... There were huge flaws in the original post... Assumptions are made of WHO has the power... and how WE all fit in... in this sort of "pecking order" and the rest of this is based on assumptions.. You can buy into it-- but then are you thinking for yourselves?? I'm just being ridiculous- because THIS is ridiculous. I'm friends w/ some of the people eluded too- I'm sorry you thought something different. I know what is being said... i've seen both sides...and i'm telling you- it's ALL about perception and FEAR. I find it all a bit sad... There will never BE and end to Classism... because there will always be someone who in someway- FEELS inferior. Are you the first to raise your hand to answer a question- even if you know the answer? Think about why that might be. Who in this ENTIRE thread hasn't felt inferior to someone or something at one point or another? Yes- even the "cool" kids- WHOEVER YOU might think THEY are. What do I see?? I see a whole bunch of different QUALITY groups of people ROCKING their shit. What's up with this whole "cool" factor?? I thought what was "cool" was what YOU personally liked- and not what other people liked? So what if someone values someone else's artwork and wants to pay $1,000 for wearable art... in my book- it's more useful than hanging something on a wall.... for peeps SO concerned about being judged- it seems there's plenty of pre-judgement going on. When i hear people talk about it- it sounds like acid...jealousy- want. I wonder if the people who say there is a divide might just not have the social vocabulary to cross those borders. It's easy to see with language- if you don't speak German... that doesn't make the German's who do, ELITE does it?? No- it simply means you don't speak their language.Does it give them power? Maybe it does if YOU feel like you want to be a part of that and you don't have the vocabulary...and aren't willing to try to bridge the gap. Perhaps it's that simple. I aspire to "bridge" the gap rather than pointing fingers. I don't subscribe to just one "sub-culture". Some people do because it gives them identity. This is way too big of topic... but one that has been rearing it's head... Before people feel upset- I'd just like peeps to stand back and really take a look at people's intentions. There are SO many quality people w/ so much to give... why get wrapped up in semantics and forget about pure & sweet intention... Love to you... a |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 3:58 PM
Only for U
“You would be surprised that if you see someone that you usually feel like you get the cold shoulder from or feel intimidated by, when you walk by smile or say hello, you might just get a response. Try it. I have been surprised myself and have made really good friendships out of it.”
Absolutely LOVEr/PantyMechanix - I know this one for sure I’ve seen the most hardened and intimidating faces smile and open up with just a "hello" – especially when you have a genuine interest and compliment to give. Which brings me to a very important message I need to share: This month I will be holding on online tele-seminar entitled: How to Make Friends with Beautiful People from the Future and Win Them Over – For Life! After attending my class, BPFTF will never know what hit them with my 12 step patented “approach and destroy with kindness” system. ORDER NOW! ONLY $2012 And!!! For those of you who want more, and you know what I mean, my advance class: How to Have Sex With Beautiful People From the Future (and shag them so hard their tattoos fall off) is a real winner for those of you who want to go to the “5th Dimension” – wink, wink! - warning: You may accidentally ingest a feather doing this! - This class will only be offered for a limited time – cause I can’t have all of you enjoying hot buttery love with all the BPFTF – because there is only a few of them and seven are actually hamburgers that require refrigeration after exposure to sunlight (why do you think we’re always dancing in the cold of night! It’s the only time that meat is allowed to roam without spoilage – shhhh). ORDER NOW! LIMITED SEATING - ONLY $2013 |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 5:54 PM
some thoughts today:
- for those of you who were following the thread on the glitch mob tribe, its now moved. to those of you who might have written anything embarassing on there, count your lucky stars. and remember when you get censored, don't judge the censor, but talk it through and try your best to find some humor in the situation. tribes.tribe.net/theglitch...4458e0298e - i have had so many heartfelt conversations with folks intimidated to post their vulnerabilities on this blog. i thank you all for that. plus, thanks to all of you who have been willing to talk about some of these things in more detail with me away from here. these ideas posted have so many layers to unfold. exploring them with each other creates such wonderful community. - i hope everyone can step outside of themselves and find some humor and irony in the way they are participating in this discussion. i have witnessed so much reactionary behavior. whether we're unconsciously sizing someone up by their appearance at the party or their first words here on tribe, most of our interactions are due to these first impressions. this is too is the american way. we can rise about this and learn to patient and compassionate on our own, but it would be so much more supportive and revolutionary if we supported each other in doing so together. |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 7:30 PM
yes
a) W, you are a genius.
b) there are kind of 2 discussions here: 1. Drama Within The Scene 2. Classism/Capitalism As for the first, it really is summed up by the Sneetches. As for the second, id say it so much mre important than the first, why cant we spend more time on that now? L |
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Wed, October 3, 2007 - 10:52 PM
Beautiful People from the Future
There has been a shift of consciousness.
As a way of supporting our recent paradigm shift, the "Beautiful People from the Future" want to extend an invitation to everyone. We are all the "Beautiful People from the Future". Please join us at tribes.tribe.net/wcv (the tribe formerly known as "West Coast Vibe") This tribe is a way of building connections and understanding what we are about. Our community reaches beyond race, class, gender, economic status, trust funds, body types and the like. The question is ... where are we going? |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 2:10 AM
so many threads, so little time...
wow, so much here to read and things that draw my little brain out in many tangential directions...
i was very touched by many of the posts, especially vibrata and nevada... you gave me valuable perspectives. i suppose in response to stephen's inquiry, a bit of self-reflection is called for... i've been running through a mental catalogue of my life's timeline and all the times i saw my world as linear and divided.... and how i grew to see it as more of an organic web....... as a child, i went to a catholic school in the deep south where everyone wore uniforms, and the only items you could choose for yourself were your shoes, coat, and backpack. some kids got their parents to buy them the brand'o'the'year, some of us rebelled and just used markers (smelly ones preferably) to scribble names and inside jokes on imitation jansport bags and ripoff keds.... i played on the boys baseball team and won the spelling bee every year, so i wasnt exactly in any popular crowds, but i was weird - and i had my (brief and fleeting) moments of pride based on that... some idea i had that being artistic and creative would get me 'outta here' and into the 'beautiful future'... fast forward to my later years in various music 'scenes' - i've been through the atlanta/southeast 'rave' years as an underage carrier-of-record-crates to get in parties, then a few years as inner crew with a certain upcoming electronic fusion band, then a little while in the west coast 'jam band' scene, a little while trekking around the world to some 'trance' parties, and then back home to california with a dream to make a place where all these seemingly incongruent parts of myself could somehow fit together.... and i use the music scenes as metaphorical for my stages of personal development, strongly tied to these movements..... anyways, i was tired of traveling around waiting to find a good fit, i suppose i realized that there wasn't really anything exactly right for me, unless miles and 'trane were to perhaps come back from the dead and sit in with steve kimock and the invisibl skratch piklz? hmm, not much chance of that, and besides, what would i wear to such a gig anyways? i suppose that's when we decided to do symbiosis <a href="symbiosisgathering.com" target=_blank>(www.symbiosisgathering.com - by the way)</a>. first there were four of us, then six, and now seven people who would argue about whether or not we are actually cool, and some of us probably wouldn't even care enough to argue about it. some of us are talking about this thread over dinner, and some of us aren't even aware of its existence because they're not on tribe. some of us like reggae and some like trance and some like hip hop dammit, and some insist we should have a grateful dead hour in there somewhere, and we all pretty much like shpongle and ott and so we can at least start with that. and we all agree that we like a lot of art and people wearing cool costumes, because they're fun to look at and they excite little kids and make things interesting. we also know we think workshops are important, and guest speakers, to keep dialogue happening and share non-traditional education. and we try to be environmentally conscious, even when it's expensive and difficult and we have to make up new ways to do it. we know it costs money to pay your rent and bills when you spend your time doing the not-always-so-profitable tasks of creating and arranging music, or building stage decor, or cutting fabric patterns. so we try to pay everybody what we can, even though we lose money, and then eventually its up to everyone to just do their thing and we have a wacky amalgamation of an event..... complete with elvis sightings - thank you, thank you very much. so really it's a matter, for me, of elevating the ideal of creativity... that's the point of symbiosis. if individuals choose to make a linear arrangement out of the mosaic, perhaps it's just an opportunity to reflect on why we would choose to perceive our community in this way, and what it may reveal about our own values. choosing to arrange people aesthetically, or by their ability/interest in social interaction, musical taste, finances (given or earned - and what we judge about how they earn it or were given it), or creative talent are just indicators we can use as introspective tools.... if you are seeing a hierarchy, look at the criteria - are you focused on an aesthetic hierarchy? financial? power-based? what does this reveal about your own desires and insecurities? if nothing else, i am happy to see that symbiosis is apparently a diverse enough event to allow us to see such a microcosmic slice of the global population as divided.... amusing really....... but kind of sad we can't see how similar we all really are.... just a bunch of people who often are bound by interest in preserving a healthy environment, living in a sustainable manner, supporting local economic systems (aka wearing eachothers' designs - buy local!), listening to music as loud and late as we want, and feeling generally comfortable to express ourselves in the way we choose, to ingest what we choose, believe what we choose, and say what we choose...... we're a bunch of freaks, guys, seriously. i've had a quote on my tribe profile for at least a year now that sums up my feelings on this topic quite nicely - i had a moment of psychedelic irony with the beatles, and so i'll leave ya with this: "how does it feel to be one of the beautiful people? now that you know who you are... baby you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man, baby you're a rich man tooooo........" |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 3:06 AM
ps...
next year at symbiosis, we're having dr spock sightings. i hear there wasn't enough trance this year...
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 11:25 AM
Good idea Lorin. This whole "DRAMA WITHIN THE SCENE" thing is played out and we should move on to a more significant problem..... "Capitalism, foreign relations, and and the push to make America a 2 tier society."
George Carlin says it best...... www.youtube.com/watch www.youtube.com/watch burning.typepad.com/burningm...e-th.html |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 11:45 AM
Okay, to add one more post to this record-breaking drama-making epic:
Among all of the tangents, defensive arguements, self-promotions and rants, with all of the heartfelt this&that's and "well I never"s, there has been a total of ONE, count 'em folks, ONE apology. Raven, apparently, is the only person willing to say, clearly and without ambiguity, "I acknowledge that people may have been hurt by my actions. I apologize." Wordup, girlie. I like what you're made of. I cannot even believe that anyone would suggest that their pharmacologicals could be used to excuse their actions. PLUR was founded and perpetuated by an entire planet of stoned people. I'm putting this out there, then. If you ever felt hurt or disrespected when I didn't say hello, didn't make eye contact or didn't help you feel welcomed and accepted, I'm sorry. I have a whole host of excuses, but none of them are more important than your feelings. Yes, I have been programmed to discriminate based on appearances by my culture, my upbringing, and my peers. I admit to being vain, self-centered, and just plain lazy on occaision. I acknowledge that these things about me can change, and I will do my best. Please accept my apologies. |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 11:58 AM
hahahahahahaahahhahaah!
Thank you everybody for making my morning coffee and interweb ritual so exhillerating today. god damn where do i chime in? first of all thank you dr. trix, lets chat in person about this the next time i run into you on the front lines of the dancefloor :) secondly, i just read the WHOLE thing just now, each and every post, and my eyes are about to burst into flames! at first i wanted to scream "yeah fuck those elitist assholes for making me feel unwelcome/fat/uncool/ugly"... then as i got deeper into the posts a new feeling surfaced, one that left me feeling so much more loved and so much more beautiful. i thought to myself "why do i put so much stock into what those people... or any people... think of me"? bottom line is that i know and love myself better than anyone, and that is enough to make me happy :) (money would make me happy too, but thats a whole other can of worms) BUT, in saying that, it doesnt mean i dont have my personal shit list with many names on it from the above mentioned groups and social types...... a very long list...... but wait!.. does that mean someone else has ME on a list too? yes it does, and in the past ive been a total snob, judging people left and right without thinking about my actions. im not perfect, im insecure, unnapproachable, and vain too. a little self annalysis is always good, lets all take a moment to check ourselves shall we? cause it all starts with ourselves... so where do we go from here? really and truly id LOVE to talk to all of you who have chimed in and discuss things in person, so if you see me out, please feel free to approach me and get the ball rolling. its time for this issue to be out in the open, its time to do something about it as opposed to talking about it behind the safety of closed doors. yours truly, miss medeenski |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 12:16 PM
p.s.
last night i was having dinner with a certain trustafarian peacock, (who for the record is not a trustafarian) i said to him " im sure youve heard this before and may even have said it yourself, but im so fucking grossed out by this community". he smiled and alerted me to this discussion, stating that all he wanted to post was "blah blah blah".
i wish he would have chimed in for real, i wish more people like him would chime in. where are the peacocks in this debate? and yes i am acknowledging (sp?) the stereotype as a viable way to distinguish the afformentioned classes and eschalons (sp?) for the sake of this debate. |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 1:42 PM
an analysis of substances and their relation to vanity
i think the drugs issue is an interesting aside and like vibrata, i'd like to call attention to it, while also drawing it back into the original intention of examining social and economic class as they relate to values of vanity in the scene.
here's an oversimplified and quick breakdown of my thoughts on different drugs as they feed a phenomenon, not act totally separately from one: ecstacy: deconstructs barriers, so that no matter how strong the mainstream influences of vanity are, people are able to see the humanity in each other and vanity becomes secondary. people will find a way to find beauty in everyone, regardless of their appearance. everyone feels appreciated and acknowledged. cocaine/alcohol: ego boosting drugs help people to feel like they're cool, important, etc. with the value of vanity built into the system, not only will these drugs help you feel cool and important, but embodying idealized appearance and associating with others who embody the idealized appearance will ego boost as well. people who use ego boosting agents are more likely to be susceptible to these cultural influences and to perpetuate them. as some have noted, these substances are in abundance these days. hallucinogens/enthogens/etc: these substances help people tap into other realities where mythology and archetypical images are valued. people who use these substances also like looking at trippy looking things. mythological characters and archetypical images are influenced by strong cultural memes of vanity, to skew those mental images. those who use these substances value certain appearances over others justified by other values that hey have, beyond vanity. so where i can see that there are different ways in which drug of choice impacts our barriers to each other, i can also see how regardless of your drug of choice, there is still an idealized appearance in the scene and vanity is a significant theme that creats barriers. each drug might lead to a different reason for barriers, but i believe ego boosting and hallucinogenic drugs have their own way of perpetuating barriers through different mechanisms. |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 4:17 PM
I love you all.
Be good to each other and don't yourselves too seriously. |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 6:25 PM
hmm
Nature reflecting rave culture?
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_ne...7028723.stm if so, maybe all of the emphasis on fancy clothes isn't that bad; the question becomes is their sexually charged vibe helping to shake up the status quo and put an end to consumerism... how many fancy cars were damaged this year at Symbiosis? Love this topic, self awareness is good. Style is great. Feeling beautiful is great. Our culture is all about PLUR... Expressing oneself is awesome.... Hating on each other for doing so is not. Hating on each other for not doing so is not. We are all one. Let's bring back some of the innocence and rid ourselves of the jadedness. Life is simple. Let's keep it fun and keep it real. Being someone who over the last 14 years of raving has fluctuated between going out dressed to the nines and going out in the incognito jeans and hoodie, I'd have to say that there are most definitely people who treat you different based on your appearance in party culture, just as there are in culture at large. There are also plenty of folks who treat each new person with kindness and openness regardless of appearance. But I'd say that appearance is a HUGE part of our programming for forming judgments based on first impressions. Next time any of you meet someone new at a party, try and get excited about it as a chance to share space with someone else who shares many things in common with you most likely regardless of how they are dressed and this whole issue will dissipate. All the peacocks should dress like frat boys/sorority gals and the hoodie crew should rock some burner fabulousness to explore the truth of appearance affecting social interaction. If you feel no difference, then we have moved forward. peace |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 6:39 PM
I love the beautiful people, and the trustawhateverians, and the feathers and the weirdos and the regular people and the bla, bla, bla and all of that.....I like seeing all the different people rocking out and having fun. I must be too nice to recognize any of the beautiful people looking down on me or not accepting me, I just never felt anything like that, I'm too busy appreciating the beauty. Also if any people are actually looking down on others then it's their loss and I feel sorry for them for missing out and having to walk around with those feelings. How lame for them! They are missing out.
Confidence is beautiful. I love seeing all the amazing things people take the time to create. I appreciate the inspiration. I'm usually a loner at parties, I just like to bounce around and take it all in and have a hard time staying in one place. I also meet a lot of new friends every time I go out. Man if there is a lot of snobbery out there then I just have not seen it I guess. Sometimes it seems that people put up a big outward apperance thing because they like the attention, some may just be creative and some may have dull personalities so they need to dress it up. Hey, it's all cool! You have to work with what you got! Just have fun. It's ok! Beautiful people get a lot of crap for being beautiful too, give them a break and give them some real honest love. Then hug an ugly dude while you are at it instead of thinking he is a creep just because he is ugly. I'm one of the lucky ones that turned out pretty enough so that I have an easy time socially but not so pretty that no one will take me seriously or approach me without jealousy. Of course it all boils down to confidence, personality and some social skills. A bit of a sense of humor goes a long way too. I love dressing up and making costumes. Crap I even like feathers. I've always liked dressing up. I really don't care what other people think about it. Sometimes I have to laugh at everyone around me and all the crazy costumes, it can get pretty ridiculous....but I like that. It's more interesting than bland and boring. I love making fun of it all sometimes. It's just making fun though, no harm meant. Soon it will be halloween and we can all go party and dress up as much as we want to without wondering who is looking at our feathers funny. It's halloween so it's ok! |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 7:15 PM
I agree with it, but to say that it's not in the psy trance scene is a little silly. It's in EVERY scene. In fact, I see it TONS in the psy scene because all the hippies got tired of being poor and unemployed, and started throwing parties with a $100-150 ticket (mind you for three days, but still). As you were saying, most of the people who started in the rave scene barely had money for anything, let alone crazy expensive parties. And if you look at all the "hippie" merchandise, like organic everything, hemp hoodies, etc. you'll find the same exploitation that you were mentioning in the other scenes. In this case, I see it as worse because those people USED to be in the scene, but they decided it was in their better interest to turn a profit.
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 8:08 PM
Whine some more.
You're old and you can't afford the trappings you think will make the cool kids like you.
If you weren't you wouldn't have written this and wouldn't care. But don't worry. Even you bought expensive costumes. The cool kids wouldn't like you anyway. You're a whiner. |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 8:19 PM
first off...before i start my novel....
Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,
but that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, handsome, talented and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God within us. It is not just in some; it is in everyone. And, as we let our own light shine, we consciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our fear, our presence automatically liberates others. by Marianne Williamson, quoted by Nelson Mandela |
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Thu, October 4, 2007 - 9:53 PM
Fantastic dialogue here.
8) A great quote from a book written by Thom Cavalli entitled "Alchemical Psychology". In it he writes.. "Rajneesh, a tantric master, tells us that "Darkness does not exist, it only appears to be. In fact it is just an absence of light. Light exists; remove the light-there is darkness...Do whatever you want to do, you cannot remove the darkness. You cannot bring it, you cannot throw it. If you want to do something with darkness, you will have to do something with light, because only something that exists can be related to. Put the light off, darkness is there; put the light on, darkness is not there-but you do something with the light. You cannot do anything with the darkness. As alchemists, we work on lead and shadow always bearing in mind the power that light has to assimilate darkness and transmute consciousness into a new and more enlightened form." |
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Sat, October 6, 2007 - 2:09 AM
geesh...yeah..laughing at ourselves is good...
lolo...i haven't laffed that hard in a bit..the 16 year old glow stick buddy...ha) i must admit...there's times i feel insecure at shin digs...all dressed up and ready ta rage the dance floor...then i get into the venue and all of a sudden..boom...i don't want to be there anymore...kinda feel anti-social and not wanting to entertain mindless chit chat about the same stuff over and over again...is it bad that in those situations all i wanna do is sit down and really connect with a close buddy? talk about the realz? or dance my ars off like it wuz my job (haha..funny it is my job sometimes....ooops..sorry haters!-please feel my giggles right there!) and guess what...i don't snatch people up to go and dance with me. i don't really know too many people that do...i just gotta shake it some times and whoever is around me is just that, around me. y'alls are acting like "the dance floor" is like some high school dance party...two benches on each side of the room, "w...w...will yu dance with me?". come on..it is what we make it. we are powerful creatures. no, i'm not referring to the kinda power that money provides. power is not a bad thing. let's substitute the word powerful for magic. we are magical beings. each one of us has the power (oops, i used the p-word again) to create our own reality. if you are telling yourself that you are anything short of totally brilliant, you're setting yo'self up for some trippy patterning. we cannot see faults in others that we do not see in ourselves. if we wanna get super humble here...let's give each other a lil break...come on buddiez...no one can make you feel any way. love yourselves a little bit more. if you are seriously feeling left out and snubbed by the entire community...oops..i mean the ones that wear leather and featherz and fedoras...and they are all super bitches that are beautiful and skinny..and...whatever other qualities that can intimidate the ba*G*zus outta anybody...then sumpthins up. i feel intimidated...quite often. there's always someone with more or better something than you. i guess... should it matter? nevada...sounds kinda vulgar, but i'm going for it..fuck yeah! thanks. (yes i'll pop a quarter in the swear jar) trish...yu too..."can i get a refund?"...so right on! broad judgements about peoples attitudes, ethix, bank accounts, reasons people wear the things they do...give me a break... if you wanna talk about how rediculous you think the price tag on some of these clothing articles at the vending booths are ...great...go for it. i know sooo many people that are devoting all they have into manifesting their wears and then shlepping them around to these gatherings (that they pay anywhere between $200-1500 for their vending space at)...we can discuss price justification...we can talk about the love that's going into it..or in your opinion the evil beast the whole process is feeding...but first off...let me ask you this... what did you pay for the shirt you are wearing? the pants? where did you purchase them? do you feel great when you get a screaming deal on a shirt at target...or at a skate shop, or at some urban street store that really exentuates your self expression? did you get it on sale? was it super cheap? sweet. good for you. i love that shit too... i love getting compliments on a piece of clothing i just got and responding, "$10 bucks, i got it at ross!" kinda cool..i guess....unless you consider that that price reflects the cheap material, labor, and mass quantity produced of the product you are purchasing. when we spend our dollars on these items, we are voting yes to sweatshops, big companies that tread hard on our earth and don't give a shit about their employees, labor conditions, the consumer....izz all about the profit margins. so while you point a finger at these clothing designers' prices...please know that there is a plethora of rediculous levels thatchyer tapping into on this one. i understand much of these vender's clothing articles are pricier then a lot of people can afford...they shouldn't be made to feel bad about it...nor should anyone that decides they would like to purchase a piece of wearable art that can usually only be acquired by the designer themselves. however, if someone is buying a $1000 vest because they wanna fit in...there's the problem...that's as dumb as looking at people having fun on the dance floor and loathing them because you feel insecure. kyle brought up a hilariously amazing point, " Some DJ’s charge $1000 for an hour set for a bunch of people . Someone else pays an artist a $1000 for vest to be worn many many hours on a bunch of evenings. Is it wrong?" ha...it's kinda even funnier if you think about the trance scene you speak so highly of...they don't suffer the "classism" fo'shizzm, right?.... $20,000 for a shpongle set, eh? wow. 20 candy ravers could transform into steezey-ass-feathery-fedora-wearing-futuristic-tribal-vesty-chicies over night. imagine that. ultraviolet...some great points...is it really a bad thing to get all dolled up? no. what about your houses? do you guys adorn your walls with art? paint? or do you throw up an old tapestry? do you like nice things? do you have a matching dish set? or mix matched thrift store plates..either way...who really cares...it's all about what makes you feel good. we're all at different points in our lives. some things are important to some people that aren't to others. people spend their moolah on different things. judging why someone makes the decisions they make is dumb sauce. what really gets me about all this, is that it is sooooo apparent to me that most of you don't even know the people you are making such harsh judgments about. trustifarians...so funny. i know maybe three people on the entire west coast that have a hefty bank account. the people that i am refering to are super amazing pillars in our society that are actually holding some amazing space in the world. they are not buying steeze. they aren't the one's who are setting trends...in fact they aren't even the ones that are even nessesarilly at the nexus of "what's hip". they are simply a part of the team. they play important rolls in the gatherings you come to experience. not in funding...or anything that has to do with money... i'm talking about doing the work. most of the peep's yur grilling so hard are working in some way at allll the events that mostchy'all are paying to come play at. working their asses off. for a living. that's what they do. that is their job. i heart people that make shit happen. the people of our tribe are some of the most inspiring people on the planet right now. if you don't share this opinion, then ya really don't know what's going on here. every single person is amazing... i dare you to find out why. if you are feeling not cool enuff...go deeper...chances are it's not because of a hat or a feather...we ain't all yankee doodlebugz. so much intention goes into sooo much of the art and services that are being offered in the community. if ya don't feel it...and are obviously wanting to know what's up..ask. don't assume. w...yur farking hirrrarious! "This month I will be holding on online tele-seminar entitled: How to Make Friends with Beautiful People from the Future and Win Them Over – For Life! After attending my class, BPFTF will never know what hit them with my 12 step patented “approach and destroy with kindness” system. ORDER NOW! ONLY $2012 " why is everyone so angry...sheesh...merck? are you okay? our "scene" is purdy darn cool. all of it. what set's it apart from a lot of different subcultures is that everyone enjoys it together...take weekend gatherings, for example... most the musicians on the bill are there having fun all weekend at these festivals, not staying at a hotel down the street...all the venders are there because they want to be...not just cuz they wanna make money...the people that put on parties in other cities come enjoy each others shindiggles because that's just what we do....hello....we are all just doin our thang. together. it's a way of life for some people. putting people down and shoving them into boxes because they make it all work for themselves sucks. i could go on for days...totally babbletroning axshally. there's so many different levels to all this blahhhshkivahhhh. basically, word up to being an open hearted and open minded community. i'm sorry to any uv y'all buddies i've ever shnubbled. i'd love the chance to make right any vibes i've wronged... i encourage everyone to be open to speaking their truth. yay. truth. beauty. open. love. dance. feathers. hoodies. eyeliner. thrift stores. glitch. trance. whatever. yay. freedom. word. |
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Sat, October 6, 2007 - 2:20 AM
ps....
steven...aren'tchya wearing a fedora with a lil feathery looking bit in your tribe photo?
totally poking atchyoo with gigglets and trixie vibes.... |
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Sat, October 6, 2007 - 12:11 PM
look beneath the surface
as a recent kidnappee from the psytrance scene into the hippie mafia, i have a unique perspective from within the cult of feathers & leather. i agree with the discussions on classism and the need to look beyond superficial appearances. but this thread makes grossly blind generalizations based on appearances, condemning the fashionable and lumping together people from many different subcultures into one socially reprehensible "scene."
i'm the first to make fun of myself when i start getting too serious. recently i posted an ironic blog ("Paradigm of the Moment," people.tribe.net/lilikoi/b...bfe86db7d) for pure entertainment value, and i was surprised that not a single person recognized it as a grand piss-take. in the past i've talked just as much shit about the breaks community (see "When Psytrancers Attack," people.tribe.net/lilikoi/b...78f676f9). if you're offended when someone pokes fun at you, perhaps it shows that you care too much. last month at Burning Man, a force beyond my understanding swooped down and permanently altered the course of my life in one tricky, manic swoop (metaphor courtesy of Rob Brezny). i was forced to let go of everything and everyone that i knew and loved. i was brought to a new home and a new lifestyle, and introduced to a new community of friends. true love opened a window in my heart that i didn't know was closed. i'm happier and more at peace than i've ever been, but i miss my family. i have been heavily involved in the psytrance community since 2000, but i knew i wouldn't be able to maintain such a deep level of involvement when i moved away from SF. as i said goodbye to my psytrance friends, my ex begged me, "please don't stop being a geeky trancer." perhaps he forgot that the values instilled by a culture go deeper than the fashions of the moment. i'm still a "trancer," for whatever that term is worth, but to define myself or anyone by just one scene would be self-limiting and counterproductive to cultural evolution. one thing i'd like to comment on is the importance of marketing and linguistics in this sociological analysis. i feel that the main reason for the growth and popularity of the "breaks scene" is the refined aesthetics... innovative fashions, skilled graphic designers, access to opulent venues, accomplished DJs, comprehensive media coverage, user-friendly beats, and a heightened collective consciousness. the "trance scene" has more heart, more ethics, more sillyness, and more ritual, but it lacks the "personality marketing" that makes it accessible and attractive to non-trancers. i mean... blacklight glowy shirts? holographic plastic on miniskirts with built-in garters? neon pink plastic dreads? pirate drag from hot topic? pointy little elf hats? pockets on top of pockets on top of pockets? dancefloors that look like a tacky disco from outer space? it's all so Goa-99!!! i've been glad to see an aesthetic evolution within the global trance community that is transitioning away from neon fluoro, and towards earthy colors, natural fabrics, and sustainable deco made of wood and bamboo. for instance, Dreamtime fashions have evolved from day-glo airbrush to muted earth tones and tribal imagery. Ozora Festival in Hungary and Boom Festival in Portugal are two examples of how the global community has expanded beyond the "breaks vs trance" dichotomy to integrate the full spectrum of fashions and music. (Hungary understands breaks! the "dirty stage" at No Man's Land reminded me of a West Coast breakbeats/dubstep party.) as long as the breakbeats scene has the critical mass and the financial resources, people will be drawn in by the aesthetic appeal and the sexy music. psytrance needs some image enhancement to move beyond the current trend of amazingly innovative music and quality vibrations, but only 4 people on the dancefloor. in our communities, "we spend so much time trying to be different, we forget how similar we all are." i agree completely. i think we all need to take ourselves less seriously, and remember the common values that unite us. |
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Sat, October 6, 2007 - 4:13 PM
Life is 10% reality...
90% perception I can't say I've ever been to anything other than psytrance parties/gatherings/festivals, so you may choose to disregard this as pretentious little inner dwellings of a 17 year old, but there are really many parallels to draw here from all different cultures, so if you will just bare with me. This issue of "classism," as you call it, is a mere perception in my opinion. These people may seem to act, dress, and dance in a way that makes others watch with a glee of admiration, but neither how much money they have, nor their appearance can make them worthy of admiring. If you perceive them as such, you are more guilty of creating this breakdown of classes then they will ever be. No matter how they present themselves, you make the choice to see them as...what's that word again?? oh yeah "COOL." If they conscientiously push you away and try to demean you in one way or another (which is hard for me to imagine in a scene that was built on plur), then they are probably not worth your time, and especially not worth admiring. But honestly, i believe that if you don't think of them as the inner circle, and rather as just another circle of friends then the breakdown of classes goes down. |
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Sat, October 6, 2007 - 6:06 PM
Movie Break
Everything in this discussion is:
1. Suffered countless times by every culture and society in the world – over and over – do you think we could get creative as multi-spectral light in human form and move on. 2. Has been covered by this video on YouTube: Hipster Olympics www.youtube.com/watch The best part happens at 6min 55 seconds - Judgment Day - but if you can, take in the whole 8min 53 seconds in. |
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Sat, October 6, 2007 - 11:33 PM
I was completely shocked and surprised to find this admission here.
But it gives me hope that this is being discussed. Whoever wrote this is an insightful, kind man. My friend pointed me to this post. I'm glad i found it.
But is this blog talking about Symbiosis (which i also felt the same vibe at) or your own scene? I moved to SF from Vancouver 2 years ago. As a complete outsider to this "Scene" or "Family" as it is sometimes called, I've attended many of your events over the past few years... the parties are great with good beats. But I agree, it's classist. It's bizarre to go to something and have so many people openly espousing kind values and acceptance, all the while discriminating between people who are clearly in and those who are out. Often I have been at parties where none of the Family will talk to any less-fabulous people. Perhaps we did not pour enough money into our costumes? Often Family members don't even deign to respond when spoken to. Common courtesy doesn't exist here. The only people who have talked to me were guys hitting on me. I just need to call your attention to the fact that many people outside the immediate group feel that this scene is pretentious and toxic. In fact, most of my friends prefer to mock or avoid False Profit events. The snubbing and social climbing is so constant, which is either funny (if you can look at it with ironic remove) or hurtful. Which is sad, because the claimed values are so counter to the real actions. The few Family members I know from other contexts have sheepishly apologized for this behavior and tell me that everyone is actually very nice. I have been holding out hope. This rather insightful post gives me hope. -Erin |
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Sun, October 7, 2007 - 8:36 PM
so much feelings and intelligence ......it would take days to read........i admit to jumping around this post to get the essence of it ........
first i want to say that i miss dancing..........i have stopped attending festi's not because i don't love my friends or like meeting new people but because i fell into a weak space.........i was remade so slowly that i thought that all the choices were my own......i had the dreads and the feathers and the leather........granted i did not have the thinness ...........i made my own clothes and sold them to friends....my business has grown and i have transitioned to production in bali........i suppose i am not as organized in my thoughts as others......but i want to share the truths of my experience.........i wanted to be beautiful and desired and seen as worthy and i believed that by fitting into an image that i found beautiful my feelings of unworthiness would vanish.....how wrong i was......they grew and i grew farther away from my center and purpose.......the party scene was a perfect place to run from myself.........i want to assert that that does not mean that the music or people or scene made me do any of this...........i agree that the elitist vices of the dominant culture are expressing through the subculture.....we are not separate from the world surrounding us but by awakening we can shift the way we relate to the world and eachother and serve those around us and those coming after us..........this is all an expression of the soul sickness of our time.........money and beauty and logic has eaten away at intuition, service and divine purpose........ i have since released myself from dreadlocks and feathers but i still love my leather..........i encourage not just the scene or scenes but all people caught in the dis ease of image to take of the gear and take a look at the beauty shining out of the eyes from the soul.........find the heart of goodness..........alot of the image is fear.......fear that without the right gear our beingness is not enough................ if you are in the service of evolution than you are in the service of truth............if you get off on feeling better than others and think that you are below others..........wake up........what you look like will not end this pain......... i ask that we stop engaging in creating envy and jealousy...............i for one choose less luxury items............the clothing i make are all under $200 and are geared toward yoga dance travel and river washing or a machine if you have it...................i choose experiences over things........consider a yoga retreat or a trip through the temples of asia over a jacket or boots..........and if you still have money to burn bring a friend that is less blessed ...........hang out with children.........they will tell you like it is............. i suppose i am interested in solutions rather than why it is happening........... |
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Mon, October 8, 2007 - 1:17 PM
Personal view
Hello. I just happened upon this thread, after a friend turned me on to it. First, let me say I do not condone vast generalizations about my communit(ies). Second, as a human being I am offended by cultural prejudice of this caliber. Thirdly, as an actual socio-cultural anthropologist, who has been intensely trained in the science of anthropology, I am offended that this original thread, under the guise of social research, even exists, it’s like we are someone’s experiment without choice or option, we call that imperialism in anthropology. Fourthly as a bridge builder and networker between all these scenes, it is sad to think that a couple of wrong experiences reflects on everyone, one bad apple shouldn’t spoil the bunch neither should twelve, look at people in a deeper way, and stop lumping people into cliques, and see the actual tribal and family networks that are expanding.
Anthropologists work very hard researching writing and doing interviews. Most proper anthropology involves a researcher who delves deep into a society, and the relationship between anthropologist and society lasts from two years up to an entire lifetime. An anthropologist would not place gross generalizations, or external value judgments upon a group that they had not interviewed. An anthropologist would go to over a dozen events before even considering thinking they know something about a culture. Honestly, the original thread reeks of bigotry, value judgment, and self perpetuating hatefulness directed towards the producers of our “scene,“ (Glitch Mob, and El’Circo), and anyone who wear’s a feather or fedora. It’s not the three or four fashionistas, not to finger point, who yes, do perpetuate arrogance, looks-ism, privilege and elitism within our community, it’s the entire bunch, not the three or four bad apples..... Some humanism. I am not a person of the upper class. I am really privileged educationally and through my experiences, and I was both “privileged” and oppressed throughout my childhood. My family was impoverished, and I stole food to eat. But I also ate at my neighbor’s homes that were from every culture and creed. That’s true privilege to me, not money but experience. As I grew out of this oppression, in and out of suicide attempts and drugging, I came to realize that my purpose in life was to create and perpetuate the cultures of the “neo-enlightenment” as I call it; people who are becoming “self and communally aware.” I went in and out of many different scenes, I was very active in the Austin Rave Scene of the early nineties, which boasted 2000 beautiful activated people, and most of them actual best friends, who interacted and inspired each other daily. I was a Club Kid who worked between Austin and New York, which was a psychedelic political movement within itself. I have been a producer, designer, historian, and promoter of nightlife movements for the past 15 years of my life. I love the nightlife. I cherish the scenes it creates, whether it be high or low with it’s behavior, all scenes offer learning experiences, and I feel the many communities that are being lumped together are blooming as any world movement should. I say to myself, “all these people have one thing in common... they ‘came out,’ they ‘showed up’ and they are willing to work through their bullshit through art, dance, music, design, style, and poetry. Not war or long diatribes that lead to war.” I have witnessed so many waves within nightlife culture, this is just a newer one but it’s not that new. Our people, all chosen families and tribes are the accumulation of majical effectiveness over two decades of tech nightlife, arising from a place of PLUR, and then a whole gen of psychedelic elders, many of whom are some of my friends. PLUR is there. It’s the original voice of “God” in our community, the music and sacred dance, which ties us together, and is the voice of our movement. I don’t know anyone in “said” communities who separate other individuals from themselves deliberately, we really are very artistically focused community and very spiritual people, and it saddens me to hear such a vast generalizations about any creature. LA where does that come into the mix?! If you’re generalizing the community at large you might as well tag in Portland too, huh. Perhaps what you are seeing is not the insecurity of the individuals in these scenes, but instead their self-awareness, and it freaks you out to see people who are working on activating their higher selves, you take the style and turn it into a weapon against you not the inspiration and art it truly represents. What you must understand is that they see the God in You. At that point it is really your fear that is keeping you from realizing the collective consciousness that is going on within these “families.” Are you willing to say let go and give them space and time to accept you? I am a “nice” guy type. I have never gone out of my way to make anyone feel left out. I dance with everyone, and I smile at people and bridge-build from many scenes into the particular scene you’re speaking of. I am one of those people who takes people shopping in thrift stores, does their makeup, and dresses them up in their own unique style, and helps many new people feel accepted, confident, and fabulous. Like many of the tutu-ed faeries (the gay or pangendered men), I personally feel your homophobic remarks are attacking. These tutu-ed faeries help and accept all types of people in their lives, aside from your look-ist generalization; faerie people empower that freaky side of us all. Physicality isn’t the issue, anyone can be helped towards brilliance and empowerment through image and identity makeovers, when they go out, yes, people respond because they see a person really making an effort to activate personal confidence, style, and grace from within. What is wrong with needing, seeking, and finding internal and external beauty? The Classism issue may be relevant underneath. But that’s such a deep-seated individual issue, one that people each must deal with individually, but is being dealt with in every culture, in every class during this day and age, even within the community you speak of. Both the perceived “upper” and “lower” classes have privilege. The oppression I experienced as an impoverished child was actually a privilege when I was being abused, it hurts that it happened, but now have awareness that others cannot fathom about human rights and oppressed, abused, and disenfranchised people’s struggles. As a low-income man, I feel very accepted, appreciated, and loved by my communit(ies). Class is not so much an issue as my own personal activity or inactivity. I remember 7 years ago, when Matty and Jason of El Circo met me at Oregon Country Fair, I had nothing. These people you speak of as being so wealthy and arrogant (who really are not either) opened their spaces, gave me food shelter and libations, and introduced me around in a very nurturing way, very unique for two straight men to cross that threshold, and accept a queer anarchist low income, freak. This is a very nurturing family, I have always known El Circo crew to empower anyone willing to “show up” and share they’re craft. I have always felt welcomed respected and appreciated. After being a victim for so much of my life, I finally had found a group of equitable people, a family, one of my many tribes and families, These communities are unconditional lovers who, empower me and don’t hold my tortured past against me. They actually empower me for being the strong and politically active survivor warrior spirit that I am and have always been. Because of my oppression, I have sought out wisdom, and wise and enlightened tribes, ways and individual people, if you seek the truth in people you will find it, if you see only lies then reflect and look at how you are lying to yourself. These true connections are so holy, pure, genuine, unconditional love built on heavy foundations. And I agree you might have had a few experiences with the two or three people in the community that actually are quite rude, and so you might see our groups as cliques instead of the families, that they are. But it is counterproductive to make vast generalizations about many diverse, internal-sub families, of people in said scene, people who have been nothing but pure spirit and beauty, people who are producing a safe haven to dress up and find consciousness as we dance in this revolution. You could have done your research better. You could have considered all of us behind the scenes who build these elaborate sets for parties, or hustle fliers on the streets, or work diligently doing hardcore political activism, human, animal rights, fair trade and forest defense. There are many of us within the community who are actively building a world built on the values of PLUR, because we are perpetuated by it by our history. Perhaps you think these values are missing just because you don’t see them, but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, as someone said. If you’re going to see the forest you need to look at the trees individually, they are all quite different but the same huh, before you can say you know the contours, nooks, and crannies of the forests, and the interconnected individual roots judging all these diverse branch’s growing out towards the same light, many of which have had almost a decade of growing together, just doesn’t do the entire forest justice now does it. So forgive me, for any misdoings my communities, my families might have done and understand that we seriously all know our weaknesses and are and have been for many years in a phase of processing them, and maturing internally, it becomes complicated and unfair when ethnocentric uncompassionate forces, disguised as social work, start making sweeping generalizations about a whole culture, and accusing each and every one of us as reinforcing classest behavior. I and many others internally are working through these issues, and we try to do this from a safe and sacred space to create true internal revolution, by opening lines of communication as you have obviously forced open, please keep building and leave the burning at the man. I dig the humor in this thread, but to me the whole thing seems like an attack by people who perceive them selves as outsiders, you create your own illusions, Forgive me I wasn't at Symbiosis to bridgebuild this year. Although some of the DJ’s and producers have responded I still feel they are not responsible for perpetuating this trend within our community, I can actually say with each and everyone of them, excepting Lorin, that I have personally had communications on this subject many times over these long years of knowing and caring for one anothers growth, and they have all actively worked they’re asses off to create and open and inclusive, community, thank you to Lorin, El Circo and the Glitch Mob for always being kind and open to everyone, and creating a space for rEvolution to flourish. Check my Blog for some Positive verbage |
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Mon, October 8, 2007 - 5:51 PM
Hey Trix,
What you are seeing here is the underground scene going through a transformation into the popular scene. This isn't anything new. Hippies were once underground, the 80's electronic movement was once underground, the Garage was once underground, heck Ibiza was once underground. What I'm getting at here is that scene's are going to progress-- whether you like it or not. But with progression comes survival. If we look at hip hop in the late 80's to the early 90's we see a solid progression in the music and a movement in masses to keep it alive. We love electronic music, we want it to survive, which means it's necessary for it to progress. You see the rich elites paying bag fulls of money to keep the movement going on their dime-- don't hate them, just remind yourself of the roots and try not to be too jaded by the riff-raff popularity has provided. When i got out of the Rave scene 6 years ago I could already see the movement that you're talking about-- and I hated it! I hated it because it wasn't what I had come to love... it had grown up. It's the same reason parents don't understand their kids sometimes. Values change every ten years and if you happen to hit a marker in that gap (which most people in any scene do) then you're going to be affected by that change. My main point is, don't project frustration into what the scene has become because it is the progression that has made artists like Mr. Scruff, Muzak, Zero 7, Bjork, Fat Boy Slim, Humpty Vission, and so many others icons in the electronic scene "make it" via the rest of the world. But Trix, there is good news for use who feel jaded-- we don't have to support those events. The underground scenes that we have loved are still there and we have to be a little more picky when it comes down to which event to go to. The electronic scene will never be forced into once direction. There will be the MTV direction, and hundreds of others that you can go support and enjoy yourself just like you did back-when. It's all good Trix. Have a good time out there and try to look at the bigger picture. |
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Mon, October 8, 2007 - 6:58 PM
a question: how to critique?
This comment isn’t directly towards anyone particular, but instead to many of you who have responded and perhaps to some of you who have yet to respond. In looking back on this exchange, I find myself challenged about how I could have broached this topic differently.
Plain and simple, I hoped my ideas would be received by a community open to self reflection. I hoped that my cultural critique, would be embraced those in my community, whether they had witnessed or experienced these observations and experiences or not. I hoped that people would receive my essay with thanks, since it was intended to help guide us in our lives together and it came from my heart. I hoped, whether people thought that these ideas were true or not, would respect my opinions. I hoped my essay would be received by people open to new ideas and those eager to be mindful of experiences outside their own. I hoped that a critique of the scene would bee seen as an opportunity to grow. However, somewhere, someone went wrong. Perhaps it was you, perhaps it was they, but here I’ll focus on me. Perhaps I could have written this essay better. Perhaps I could have been more specific. Perhaps I could have been more general and ambiguous. Perhaps I could have been more academic or less. Perhaps I could have been more self reflective or not. Perhaps I could have spent more time refining my points. Perhaps I could have had more people proofread for errors. Perhaps I could have examined my methodology. Perhaps I could have examined all the co-factors. Perhaps I could have made it longer or shorter. Perhaps a lot of things. But I doubt any of those things would have pleased everyone, so you got what you got in its imperfect form. Despite the magic we can create, the hope we have, and the beauty we share, we are still fragile creatures seeking safety in this world. And it is perhaps for that reason, we resist things we don’t want to hear. As we all know, this will come up again. So I ask everyone reading this, what would help you openly receive with thanks, a critique of this scene? |
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Unsu...
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Mon, October 8, 2007 - 7:30 PM
face to face conversation
something gets lost in this web thing
things are often misunderstood I'd love to see real live in person discussions with people from all walks of life (maybe specifically invited to ensure attendance) I love dancing and love music...but nothing surpasses connecting with people through actually communicating with them verbally in person. Set it up it in the format of that other heavy topic discussion we had a few months back: a guide/mediator to keep everyone on track, "rules" set forth to ensure anonimity, respect, etc... in order for everyone to feel free to speak their mind without judgement. I'll have a space to host large groups by Thanksgiving weekend that I'm almost positive would be cool to host something of this sort. Let's stop talking about it, let's just do it...make some change! :) |
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Unsu...
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Mon, October 8, 2007 - 9:19 PM
take 2.
hi stephen.
in your original post i had alot of conflicting feeling come up. you know through our conversations over the past several months that i have been thinking about about this topic. and yet, as i referenced in my first response (which was admittedly was defensive and rather d00mful) there was something about the way this idea was framed that seemed to be in conflict with what i assumed you were trying to get at. which is to say that my response to your revised essay now is: what if it doesn't quite work this way? i believe you misidentified the relationship between money and the persistence of rank in the west coast dance music scene. i can't tell if your last comment/listing is an invitation to share my ideas about how i think it does work, but i'll go out on a limb. the framework that i am working with these days centers around the underlying differences between the rich and the cognoscenti. it is helping me tease out my thoughts about the situation and i'll share with you and others with the hopes that we can continue to move towards constructive dialogue. so i believe that the differences between certain key aesthetic products does matter immensely. my understanding of our present situation is that the importance of understanding these differences has somehow blown itself out of proportion and been translated into an idea that some people--let's call them tastemakers--actually matter more than other people. without defining what good taste actually is, i'd like to bring up the notion that in the absence of actual capital, good taste is enough to guarantee cultural authority. i'm going to ride on the assumption that most of our friends would agree that there are many skills that pay their dividends largely in social capital. herein lies the power in being an artist or creator. not surprisingly, when this role is combined with that of the curator, producer/promoter or symbol manager, the power seems to increase exponentially. through this framework it makes sense to me that many of our most celebrated artists have joined the ranks of the tastemaking elite, either though their (our?) personal artistic contributions, their (our?) devoted efforts at reinforcing the scene's cultural fabric or some combination of the two forces. and so while money can buy someone the image of belonging to this group of tastemakers and cultural connoisseurs, i remain unconvinced that it really works that way. that said, it seems like now is as good a time as any to ask if we are experiencing cultural tyranny. does the aesthetic cultivated in the various scenes feel stale, grim or repressive? is it still inspiring, dynamic and fresh? is there room for cultural critique and self-revision? is the spirit of collaboration alive and well? i think we've somehow--as a group--managed to turn the popular into a weapon that shames and excludes the novice. it also penalizes those incapable or indifferent to distinctions amongst the many key (music, fashion) cultural products. how does this even happen? i know in my case i have fallen into the trap of conflating my devotion to good taste with ideas about personal integrity. at best this attitude has created really cool parties with dope music and lots of beautiful people gettin down. at its most poisonous, it has created rifts between me and other people (some of them friends!) who feel inclined to push back on me and my own tendencies to enter search-and-destroy mode towards the "uncool." and perhaps this is the entry point back into your question ... i think your critique would be well-served by taking into account False Profit's role, and maybe your own to a certain extent, as a petty tyrant in this larger institution. as a collective we have managed to stake out some small ground. we know what we like and get to be a gateway through which others can experience some of the west coast magic. we are however, mostly comprised of individuals (artists, teachers, healers, folks fighting the good fight, and many more) who spend our working hours directing our attention out back at the rest of the world. in my opinion, the various groups of people that i consider to be more "in charge" of west coast tastemaking seem to put much more time towards the creation and maintenance of both their own and everyone else's experience. anyway, is there a world where reigning-in disdain for newbees/muggles/earthwalkers/ugly people from the past (whatever you want to call them!) is a more attractive situation than this uniquely west coast brand of cultural despotism? i'm not sure. if anything, i think that beginning to talk about the nature of institution and oppression and how it is playing out in our social lives just brings up more questions. one thing i'm sure of it that at the heart of the matter is my own desire to be loved and accepted. xo, nev |
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Tue, October 9, 2007 - 12:12 AM
Sorry if the life story and bit of personal history was off, modern anthropology is the life story, I am writing volumes on the way I see the evolution of our culture, I take altruism very seriously so that and I would just like to humanize and intellectualize this peacock. Many solutions to the riddle being spun out here. I like Trance, Breaks Dub, Drum n Bass, House, interact in all scenes with all people, these experiences offer my spirit so much so I interact and diversify within most of these crowds as much as possible, let's lighten up and have some fun jeez, it's all PLUR, what our scene is built on Peace Love Unity Respect. Classism is great to discuss in venues like this maybe not out on the dancefloor or some random Sunday morning after dancing all night, alot of it can be broken down with the right approch at the right time, and with the right attitude we can change the coarse of human evolution, but it'll take a lot more compassion, I know the only story I can tell is my own, and how these families effect me in a positive way as a person who is a survivor. I understand looks-ism, it is sad that people see each other in such negative and harsh ways, beauty is really grown from within and projects itself into all types of people you just have to see that part of the person. Vanity is an illusion on both sides, confidence is not vanity, nor does it behave vainly. Being and knowing enough low-income fabulous people in the scene, I don't agree that our personal style, is a reflection of aristocracy, more like hobo hippie transient chic, most of us dress that way day in day out this is how we live, who we are becoming, spiritually internally and externally, it's a cultural growth process and this is the current trend in the art of spiritual awareness and couture on the west coast. I didn't mean to chastize you my brother, with my shoulda, woulda, coulda, academics, it hurt's to feel attacked or to hear good honest people attacked, or to see genuine, loving warriors, disempowered they're events threatened, for not socially enginering thier society better, right now it's engineering itself, we are all tinkering around on this blog and things are happening just the way they need too. Forgive me if I have ever seemed rude to anyone, don't think it was me, and I certainly am a vocal internal voice of reason within my many networks because of my life experience I am very empathetic to oppression, I am thriving, helping to create culture, and our art , all people's music will save the world, long live the neo-enlightenment, and the personal and cultural rEvolution,
peace love unity respect |
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Tue, October 9, 2007 - 10:14 AM
Are We in Highschool again?
I would recommend re-watching The Breakfast Club. It addresses the same age-old human issues of class, coolness, hierarchy, exclusivity, appearance etc. Ok, so maybe it doesn't directly address the west coast rave scene but the principles are the same. |
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Wed, October 10, 2007 - 12:16 AM
Food for thought.....
"This comment isn’t directly towards anyone particular, but instead to many of you who have responded and perhaps to some of you who have yet to respond. In looking back on this exchange, I find myself challenged about how I could have broached this topic differently. "
maybe you didn't need to. I have a favorite saying I've picked up from Baba Hari Dass, a renowned spiritual teacher: "when a pickpocket meets a saint, all he sees are the saint's pockets" Meaning? conversations like this are bound to veer off course due to the fact that we all hear and see whatever it is we are looking for in a piece of information like this. With human beings, projection is the rule, not the exeption. You Broached the topic beautifully, but it has been twisted through the prism of the minds of all us who have read it, some of us being more dense than others, some more hung up on seeing or justifying whatever it is we want to see or respond to in it. It's human nature......I echo Laura's recommendation to study nonviolent communication (NVC). If it's taught me anything, it's taught me how prime the need to be heard is in each of us. More often than not in a discussion like this, the reply you get from people has more to do with airing one's own view and being heard than it does with actually dialoguing and responding clearly to the original point or topic. "Plain and simple, I hoped my ideas would be received by a community open to self reflection. I hoped that my cultural critique, would be embraced those in my community, whether they had witnessed or experienced these observations and experiences or not. I hoped that people would receive my essay with thanks, since it was intended to help guide us in our lives together and it came from my heart. I hoped, whether people thought that these ideas were true or not, would respect my opinions. I hoped my essay would be received by people open to new ideas and those eager to be mindful of experiences outside their own. I hoped that a critique of the scene would bee seen as an opportunity to grow. " it is, but not everyone recognizes or desires that opportunity. There is one MAJOR projection that you are guilty of in this statement, and it's the assumption that the people in your community want reflections like this, that we want to grow and evolve. Not everyone desires and values what you value. Sadly, that's true even when it's something as wonderful as mutual happiness, well being, and self awareness. "However, somewhere, someone went wrong. Perhaps it was you, perhaps it was they, but here I’ll focus on me. Perhaps I could have written this essay better. Perhaps I could have been more specific. Perhaps I could have been more general and ambiguous. Perhaps I could have been more academic or less. Perhaps I could have been more self reflective or not. Perhaps I could have spent more time refining my points. Perhaps I could have had more people proofread for errors. Perhaps I could have examined my methodology. Perhaps I could have examined all the co-factors. Perhaps I could have made it longer or shorter. Perhaps a lot of things. But I doubt any of those things would have pleased everyone, so you got what you got in its imperfect form." perhaps you had no control over how this would turn out. Perhaps it's all unfolding exactly as it's supposed to. Perhaps nothing (and nobody) has gone wrong..... "Despite the magic we can create, the hope we have, and the beauty we share, we are still fragile creatures seeking safety in this world. And it is perhaps for that reason, we resist things we don’t want to hear. " Amen. and to add to that, I paraphrase jody's first post: we resist things we don't want to hear not because we are afraid we are weak and unable to handle it, but because it demands us to ackowledge that we are far more powerful than we understand, more deep than we can conceive. We resist because we don't want to throw out our identities--now matter diseased they are, and face the fact that we are far larger than that, far more mysterious than that. That we are in fact, much more than the ego and all it's grasping petty games. The death of the identity, no matter how small, seems to be the primary human fear. Seems we'd rather be small than recognize that we are the unchanging source that manifests all change. |
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Wed, October 10, 2007 - 2:34 PM
The Techno Vikings are coming for us.
All of you can laugh and cry and talk all you want, but regardless of anything now is the time for all of us to come together as brothers and sisters because there will soon be an invasion. The Techno Vikings are coming, and they are coming for us, they will destroy all Plur, they do not care about feathers, or hats, or anything at all, anything except for total domination of our scene.
I am listening to internet HARD house, PSYTRANCE and rocking my bod to prepare for the horde's immanent arrival. www.youtube.com/watch |
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Wed, October 10, 2007 - 6:25 PM
i've been digesting this for a while, because it's a version of something that has turned me off about this new oh-so-cooler-than-though breaks world that i've watched emerge.
the bay area has always been special. i was on national tv to talk about raving about ten years ago, representing what was so remarkable about the bay area rave scene in the 90s. as i waited in the green room, a stylishly dressed young girl, another guest, came in and i said "hi, where you from?" new york, she said. "what's the rave scene like in new york?" i asked.. she gave me a look and said, it's pretty much about who you know and what you wear. oh, and the drugs. i was so sad for her and that superficial evaluation. and it sounds like that may sum up what's happening here now (though no one has mentioned the drugs, but i'm pretty clear there is a white powder effect in some of this that adds to the cliquiness, though others might be more qualified to address that). yes, we are spoiled here, but we earned that. back in the day in the bay area, the rave scene was a place where everyone was welcomed on equal footing. we were so open-minded that i once found myself standing in a bathroom line next to a post-op topless tranny in full leather gear, and realized that no one else in the whole place was looking twice at her. *that* is acceptance, real acceptance, of individuality. candy raver, preppie, tie-dye hippie or gangsta, you were welcome, and you were only judged on your behavior to others. in fact, for those who aren't aware, many of the old collectives are still growing strong, getting older and remaining tight as their kids grow, and their lives develop, and they deepen their bonds... because for them, it's about music, you bet, but more importantly, it's about community. the thought that we have gotten so diverted in the breaks world by this snotty coolness factor, and by thinking that it IS about clothes, and hanging with the "cool kids" is as disheartening as seeing young people be as sexist as their grandparents. sigh. one step forward, two steps back. i've experienced this haughty expression of arrogance more than once... the first time was at an event where there was a whole group of new faces, wearing dreads and big earrings and feathers and funky clothes and looking, well, looking like me in many ways. my first thought was, wow, frickin' cool, these must be my people! but by the end of the evening, i was completely disheartened, because for the first time in a scene i've been active in, and fought for, for more than 14 years, i had gotten the once over, and more than once... you know, the look up and down as someone is assessing if you're cool enough for them. i actually had one new friend step away from me when he saw some of the alpha-feather folks approaching... me! jesus frickin' christ, wtf? bottom line... you cannot be cool by trying to be cool.. in fact, caring about being cool is the anti-cool. being a poser is the kiss of death. cool isn't something you wear, either, and it isn't something you purchase, nor is it something you get by association. and you cannot be cool by judging that others are less cool than you. arrogance is also the anti-cool. you can only be cool by being who you are, and by sharing that with the world. some of the coolest people i know wear tshirts and blue jeans, and some of the biggest posers are head-turningly fashionable. and vice versa. there is no correlation between clothes and coolness. i have no opinion on the "classist" part of the original post, since in my circles, there is no childish reverence for money, no matter where it comes from. we have self-made multimillionaires and people between jobs and no one gives a shit. why would we? money is a non-issue for evolved beings. i encourage all of us to take a look at where we might be buying into the "they're the cool ones" mentality. remember the story of the emperor having no clothes? turn that kind of examination onto your own community, and you will see where there are people worth admiring and respecting, and where there are people who are posers and pretenders. then hang out with the admirable ones, and give a wide berth to the posers and pretenders, and keep an open mind about how one's social circles might shake out. and steven, thanks for starting this conversation. |
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Thu, October 11, 2007 - 12:22 PM
Tribes, culture and elitism
This is a great topic, as it makes us look at ourselves as well as at others. I feel like I have a certain perspective as an outsider since I have only associated with this scene since the 2006 Burning Man and suffer from being
Damn Old Not Burning Hot Not Rich Yet, I feel like I have a certain Spirit and I have Love. I can certainly relate to the dynamic expressed in the original post. I’ve been thinking of it since I had a conversation with a woman friend who is totally hot and totally fashionable, who yet said she felt a cool distance coming from a certain crowd (who looked just like her) that she described at the “Galactic Supermodels” It put me on the lookout for elitism and thinking of this subject. What I’ve noticed so far: 1. The further the distance you look at another tribe, the more elitist they look. The more I was able to hang out with different crowds. The more wonderful and cool I found them to be. I found it hard to find real elitists up close, only from a distance. 2. That all tribes are filled with individuals with varying strengths and weaknesses. Some have the vision and heart to see beneath the surfaces and some feel insecure and need to protect their social status through association. 3. There is a certain element of protecting personal space and time in running with your own tribe. A friend who is in a famous band might have an invisible aura of being hard to approach because hundreds of folks would enjoy cozying up to him, and that would make life hard. Really beautiful women can often feel safe and unmolested when then stick within their tribe which values respectful and consensual connections. 4. Our projections of insecurity and rejection create that reality in our social interactions. We connect easier with those who we expect will accept us. 5. Whether in others, or ourselves, our false illusion of personal identity and status (positive or negative) is a slave master that limits our love and joy. I remember being on this art car at BM 2006 where they were turning riders away due to the fact they could only take so many folks and they had a big camp. They were beautiful folks and I'm sure some felt rejected. Yet I saw these same folks go out of their way and take extra time to get help for total "uncool" strangers that they found confused or dehydrated. I’m grateful and blessed to have met such amazing people within the subcultures I frequent. It takes time and openness. The more my acquaintances know me, the more I’m trusted and become friends. I am torn by the demands of fashion. I hate the idea of conforming to fit in with those I like to hang with. On the other hand, it seems that folks look for these external cues of fashion to affirm that a person is acquainted with the values and culture of a certain tribe. It feels safer for a woman to know that if she meets a guy with a warm hug and kiss on the cheek, that he won’t follow her around like a dog in heat for the rest of the night. So I strike a balance. I find some feathers in nature when she blesses me with some, buy some interesting fabric on my world travels, but won’t wear leather pants. Fact is, all cultures have fashion cues, even the jeans and T-shirts crowd. The enlightened ones in any group stay open and value the expressions that are different than their own norm. Peace and Love Karl "Baba" |
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Thu, October 11, 2007 - 12:44 PM
phewph!
well i've read enuf of this to get the gist.
thanks to st.even, lorin, orange, and all those that are calling out the dangers of obtuse generalizations. and special thanks to 'jon' was it? for the butterfly/frog/forest fire metaphor. boom! i'd like to reiterate lorins' point that we are ALL part of a highly priveleged class, and as such, shouldn't we be talking more about what we can do to give back to the countries/cultures that the west has been pillaging from for so long? this discussion obviously needed to take place, and i hope lots of people get lots of insight from it. it seems to me the issue here is about insecurity. it happens to everyone. even the beautiful people... would you really even notice if some unstylish less-than-hot person wasn't particularly open to you? maybe. but how much more does it rankle when someone 'desirable' doesn't give you their energy when you want it? be careful with your words. they are powerful tools, and when used inaccurately, can cause wounds and separation. i know that wasn't your intention steven, but i see people jumping on the "THEY (hot/steez mongers) are ALL a bunch of snobs" bandwagon. dangerous. let me just say, as a humble canadian who has always made a point of keeping at least my eyes open to people from all walks of life, that yes there certainly is more pretentiousness in cali than lots of other places. but it does exist everywhere, and pointing fingers is not about to change that. i am not a wealthy person, a dj, a fasionista... i have almost none of the prerequisits supposedly needed for entry into the elite (except of course my huge muscles and sharp teeth). and yet i am friends with most of them. why? mostly because i've know lots of them for many years. this makes it easier to connect more quickly with others of the 'clique' because i've earned trust from people close to them. that is natural and occurs on every social level. and for most of that time i've been wearing my value village clothes. it is way easier to point fingers at the 'beautiful people' or those in the upper eschalon for not being perfect, because everyone is watching them. everyone wants a piece. no wonder they sometimes don't have enuf energy/attention for everyone. WHAT IF WE TOOK ALL THIS ATTENTION AND CHANNELED IT INTO FINDING SOLUTIONS FOR THE REAL CLASSISM? WHEN LESS THAN 5% OF THE WORLDS POPULATION HOLDS MORE THAN 90% OF THE WORLDS 'WEALTH'. WHEN THE INDUSTRIES SUPPORTING THE REAL ELITE ARE BASED ON TOXIC ENERGY SOURCES, STEALING FROM THE POOR COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD, DISASTER CAPITALISM, AND SOCIALLY CONDITIONING THE MASSES TO BE APATHETIC CONSUMERS!!!! let's all just forgive eachother these little faults. we are all basically good people in this tribal society. our only real fault is that very few of us are doing much about the aforementioned issues. KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN FOR HYDROGEN FUEL CELL TECHNOLOGY. i love you all. stay inspired. don't sweat the small stuff. let's dig deeper and generate more discussions about the real threats we face in this time. BLESSUP. |
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Thu, October 11, 2007 - 5:23 PM
wow.
reading all of this makes my head hot. I'd like to try and offer my thoughts in some sort of clear and coherent manner, as I've been involved and around this particular scene for almost a decade now...... Let me first confirm that this dynamic *DOES* exist, is very real, and has hurt many people. It's a cycle-- a predictable, repeatable cycle that has rolled on for the last 10 (or many more) years, and contiues to. In it's wake, I have seen so many people be spit out, shoved away, turned off, exalted, burned out, made into demi gods, etc..... But the rest of the original post relating to classism and hierarchy is rampant with projection. Sure, there is some truthful resonance in your observations, but there is a lot of inaccuracy and assumption. I guess it'd help to get to know the people you're talking about before judging where they're coming from, who they are, how priviledged they are, etc. But then again, if they won't let you get near them, then, I guess you've got to assume..... AND it blows my mind that there are people who have posted on this blog who act like they (and their friends) shit don't stink. I have been around enough to know and have seen first hand people who have posted here acting like elitist pricks. Not everyone, and not all the time, but I have seen it, I know that it happens, so don't try to play it off like it doesn't. :) I myself have been on both sides of this coin. I have had this very discussion literally hundreds of times. At this point, I have so much compassion for all the hurt on both sides of this dynamic.... The first thing I'd like to say is that this is not new. Not even close. This is human nature in it's current state.This is an ancient ignorance. I dare say that one of the most rampant diseases that human beings have is insecurity. It's so easily contageous, and sometimes so subtle, that it gets passed on really easily.... I too have seen and experienced this dynamic as a form of classism. I am really concerned with the idea that it isn't. Sure, there are larger and farther reaching forms of classism that creates suffering for BILLIONS of people. Yes, we should be looking at that and dealing with it. Yes, we are part of the priviledged upper strata of the Global Community. However, I'm not going to let whatever guilt I feel around that blind me into invalidating people's experience and the reality that this same dynamic is being perpetuated IN OUR OWN COMMUNITY by people who supposedly know better. But that's the thing-- the assumption that "we" know better. The assumption that everyone in the underground has evolved, woken up, got the message, or otherwise "deprogrammed" all the lies, values, and social programming that we were raised with. We are children of this modern, western, north american culture-- one that glorifies, no, DEIFIES materialism, beauty, elitism, wealth, vanity, and Ego in all it's extremes. OF COURSE many around us act that way. That's what they were raised with. And until one is ready to let go of those values, no amount of psychedelic/new age "de-programming" is going to really change that. However, I do see it as true that one needs to have a certain amount of money in order to spend a certain amount on looking cool in order to be deemed cool. This is classism. I know first hand. I had money challenges for years and couldn't afford new, fresh, cool clothes all the time. I've been on the outside of the circle MANY times due to that fact, even though I have known and been friends with "the cool kids" for years. It doesn't take a genius to realize that with more money, you can afford better clothes. So sad that this division amongst the priviledged can be boiled down to who can afford the coolest clothes and who can't. Like leslie said, for evolved beings, money is a non-issue. Another Piece to this that I see is that this "community" has grown to be huge in a small amount of time. I remember when I first started gonig to these gatherings, it was WAY smaller and more intimate. Most everyone knew or recognized each other, and there was a palpable sense of connection and radical acceptance. So much so that there was often a sense of profound magic, possibility, and often a deep communing of groupmind experience. Freedom of expression was encouraged, people felt safe-- so they got really high on the drugs that were fashionable at the time (MDMA, psychedelics), and there were many, many deep nights of communing, feeling oneness, healing, spiritual awakenings, psychiic phenomena, & magic. It was hard not to feel the vibe. There was a very real sense that we were (are) and would be changing the world for the better. In that time, there was a lot of spiritual awakening, and a lot of downloads that many people got. So many, in fact, that it was safe to assume that most at the party were on the same wavelength, understanding these many deep principles of life. Along with that, there was an air of encouraging free expression, and even though there were fashion conscious people there, it was just part of the whole. They we simply freely expressing like the firedancers, and the DJ's, and the contact improv dancers, etc. etc. etc..... However, I offer the idea that part of the reason it was easy to wake up and commune was becasue there were less people, and thus, the messages coming through were easier to recieve, share, and communicate with one another. Basically, everyone I was around at that time "Got it". But it didn't cap out there. The scene kept growing and growing, and the more high visibility people in the scene (DJ's, fashionistas and firedancers) inevitably became the ambassadors for our growing movement. They also became more powerful as more people supported them. And on and on it went. It's still going, but here's the funny thing: as the scene expanded, each time the circle grew wider and brought more people in, the quality of consciousness degraded. In an effort to reach more people with the vibe and magic that we created, the message failed to be articulated clearly, failed to be recognized, got misinterpreted, watered down and made more mainstream. With every generation of newcomers to the community, the message weakened, until all that was palpable was a set of aesthetics. Sure, there are still those who have been activated by the community, and those who entered it with a great amount of already cultivated consciousness, but they are far outnumbered (though not outpowered) by the larger masses of the scene who are essentially your average american clubbers with better fashion sense. I think there are other factors at work here too that are not to be overlooked, namely DRUGS. I think that the consensus drug taken at a party will have A LOT to do with the quality of consciousness of the people inside it. When I first entered the scene, the dominant drugs of hte time were MDMA and psychedelics. Sure, there was everything else, and people experimented, but it wasn't the norm. There was a significant shift in vibe in our community when alcohol became popular. It became far more dense and sexual. It also became far less magical. The same thing happened again when cocaine hit the scene en masse, but instead of dense, it became dense and aggressive, instead of joyful, it became empty and numb, instead of magical, it became hierarchal. However, I think MDMA is largely at fault here too: MDMA is a great and powerful medicine. It's capable of much good, but at a price. See the thing is, when most people get high on E, their discrimination goes out the window. They become so accepting of everything around them that they say yes to everything, including things that aren't good for them. Often, a person on E *just needs stimulus* & they may not even care what kind. That can be a problem. With enough people high on E, needing *any* stimulus, and in a place to accept anything around them, they often say yes to experiences and energies that are not really good for them. Do this over time, and it's very possible to get changes for the worse in a scene, as people accept and grow to be comfotable with energy that can be way less than conscious. My thought on all this is that if you are conscious engough to see this game and be bothered by it, then you are also conscious engough to see through your own insecurities and get over it. Rather than asking others to change, why not change yourself, address your fears and your own projections? If you like being stylish, then why not pursue it on your own and gravitate towards others like you. If you don't care about fasion and just want to be around people with open minds and hearts, then start a scene with all the people you know who are like that. If you want open heart, and good fashion, then find THOSE people. Point being that playing into the game, feeling sorry for yourself, getting angry at others for their lack of consciousness, trying to be cool and fit in or whatever else are all ways to waste your own time, gifts and energy. We are better than that. My simple solution? MORE LOVE. If those who feel insecure practiced more self love, then they probably won't feel inscure much longer, and wouldn't care what others thought or wheter they're accepted into some elitist group. If those who feel judgemental and elitist practiced more Loving compassion, they they would have more fans, more friends, more opportunities, and may have just met the next epic artist/musician/DJ/fashion designer in the community. It takes so little to be open and receptive to another, and that small action adds up to a sense of power, happiness and unity that can actually give us the leverage to improve things on a global level. Non action is a choice. By not contibuting to a good vibe, you are in fact, contributing to a bad one. On one of the original points, I agree with Dr. Trix: it doesn't hurt to say hi to a stranger, be a little more welcoming and friendly, and perhaps a little less self absorbed. Then again, it doesn't hurt to cultvate some self worth and self love and make something better if you are dissatisfied with what you experience around you. |
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Unsu...
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Sat, October 13, 2007 - 1:20 PM
mao's philosophy was that, in order to strengthen a community, members of the community MUST be allowed to openly critique the situation for the sake of improvement. everyone has a right to equal input and everyone has a right to criticize. in fact, you'll find that, during the student revolution in china, when someone did something that was bad for the community as a whole, his lot was to make a public self-criticism.
that being said, this whole exercise - all of the opinions that are coming through in this - are extremely valuable. criticism isn't a bad thing, and thusly shouldn't be viewed as such. i can see how it is that many people might be affronted by this whole exercise, but really that is just a product of an unhealthy attachment. this isn't you. this isn't me. this is something that is owned by us all and isn't the work of any one person. i noticed that one particular gentleman responded by saying that all this was an incredible amount of whining, and i was bothered by it specifically because his response disregarded the fact that this exercise and all it produces is actually very healthy. at the same time, my being bothered by his reaction is a product of my attachment to the process, which is unhealthy. so now, how can we move from being mired in this process of self-criticism and into a mode of creating change? how can we do so without value judgments, without giving any one voice a stance over all the others, and without losing any one member of the community? this has to move forward at some point, or it will rapidly degenerate into a whole lot of effort for nothing, and so at some point we all have to be given a direction. what is the direction the community wants this to take? what is it we're all needing in order to feel like equal participants? those are really important questions to which i have my own answers, but my answers aren't all of yours. is there anyone willing to speak to this? i know it's been touched on a great deal, but mostly it's been a lot of hinting, as i get the impression no one wants to put his needs before anyone else, here. however, i think it is glaringly obvious at this point that we're all looking for SOMEthing, here. so what is it? |
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Sat, October 13, 2007 - 2:15 PM
I know that for me, it would be a return to purity, right relations, and applied self awareness on a group level.
That's really all I want-- for people to be open, honest, happy, in self integrity, and exercising self awareness. In my estimation, these few qualitites could radically transform our experience of community from something draining and confusing to something so incredibly magical, healing and fulfilling-- something energizing and truly, deeply inspiring. However, these are radical personal choices that take constant commitment--something I see many young hedonistic westerners running away from like the plague. The result is worth it, but it does take work to remain self aware and not project on others, to choose to be happy, to choose self integrity even when it's the harder choice, and to remain open when you are feeling weak or contracted. The paradox that I see is this: in order for our community to really be something special, it would require each one of us making a very conscous, internal and personal choice towards these actions. It essentially would require each one of use to choose to change and grow in the face of challenge. The frustrating thing for me is this; I think we are *so* incredibly close to being able to do this collectively, and I think the results would be astonishingly powerful and positive for all of us. It would change all our lives for the better, and dare I say, really arm us with something to gift the world with. |
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Unsu...
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Sun, October 14, 2007 - 11:28 AM
interesting
damn, so many comments! ok, me too, why not?
when i read this essay i thought "damn, who ever wrote that is really an idealist at heart. too bad!" before you get too excited about psytrance, i should warn you, its the same! especially obvious if you visit another country where it is actually a popular genre. I am guessing you would not appreciate the models that arrive to the parties on helliocoptor and spend waaaay more than their american hottie counterparts on fashion. Or the mafias that throw the parties. same same here, just smaller scale. As far as little economic comparisons go, the entire electronic music scene is, too me, very "first world." these are decadent rich parties anyhow. devisions within it? of course, that is what humans do. I am not going to pretend I don't participate, because I do. but I also don't mind being a selfish bitch on the dancefloor. i dunno, the complaints you have about your scene (s) seem like complaints against the human race. my advice is, find music you like, and dance. if you can't find it, make it happen. Try not to be disappointed when things don't reach your unrealistic expectations, and to remember, people are in this for different reasons |
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Mon, October 15, 2007 - 10:27 PM
i finaly had a chance to read your posting. - wow, its went long!
I have some to say , but i will be more comfortable talking to you in person. Maybe next time whan I see you. |
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Thu, October 18, 2007 - 8:20 PM
a spiritual perspective
I apologize for this anonymous post. I am a little shy about posting my spirituality in public forums, versus one on one interactions. If anyone is still reading this series, I would love comments back as I try to understand this 3D reality while shifting into the next.
TO THE ILLUSION OF A COOL HEIRARCHY Remember: We are all spiritual beings having a human experience. Perhaps I am in this “scene,” have created projections of a “cool” hierarchy and am in this discussion on tribe right now as part of my karmic destiny to further my awakening to unity consciousness and to understanding that we are all one. I am now ready to cut through this illusion of separation. I am a “cool” enlightened spiritual being. I remember my true higher self right now. And next time I am in the illusion that there is anything but love in my self-created reflection in the form of another person, then I remember that they are just mirroring an aspect of myself that I need to heal. If I am not feeling the love in the way that I would like, then I look at how I am not giving the love. Perhaps I go up to that person who is triggering me and thank them for making me aware of the space that I need to heal and tell them I love them. Then I see what kind of response I get. Every moment, I try to remember that there is only love and anything I experience beyond love is an illusion that I must break through. (I am using I statements instead of you statements as you are me.) On the flip side, if someone were to come up to me and say that they are triggered by me and that they don’t think I like them or that I give off an air of snobbishness, then I would stand in stillness with this person in recognition of our unity and higher love. At the same time, this does not mean that a day-to-day friendship in the way you define it would flourish. I often stand alone in my sovereign state of wholeness. And if I want to know someone more, I can express that desire and at the same time, understand that this other person may not go further into friendship with me for many reasons which would not then conditionally mean that I would love them any less or trigger me to love myself any less. I understand as well that someone’s aloofness means many things beyond someone thinking they are too cool. I can change my reaction and perspective on the situation at any time to paint the reality differently. Ultimately, I am whole with myself. Fashion as a Symbolic Language Clothes are a symbolic language of communication and in our tribe, I think that many deeper spiritual truths are expressed in many of the designs and styles. What does the fedora symbolize, the tutu, the feather, or the whole sexy tribal look symbolize? Let’s take the feather, what does it communicate? Why do people in our tribe resonate with the feather? To me, I like to think that it is our subconscious recognition and desire to awaken to our bird tribe lineage, our spirit, our higher self and ultimately our oneness. Perhaps I subconsciously connect with other people who wear feathers because I subconsciously think that they desire the same awakening that I do. This does not mean that I think you are not cool or less awake for not wearing feathers. That is the “lack” paradigm. It just means I resonate with those that wear feathers and at the same time, I resonate with you for wearing your heart and vulnerability on your sleeve, on your face, in your eyes. What does dressing “hot” in the context of tribal style symbolize? To me, it symbolizes the awakening and acceptance of our raw primal sexual energy and perhaps our subconscious desire to awaken our kundalini and sensual bodies, to embrace the divine feminine, and understand the path of the senses as a root to enlightenment versus the more dominant, male-centered approach of denying desire or the senses. I intuitively feel this awakened in me as I begin to dress this way myself when for so long I shunned the images of beauty projected in the mass media and turned away from enhancing myself. Beauty and beautiful clothes are an attracting force and clothes can be used to draw people in and hopefully upon drawing someone in, I can be present to their existence on this planet at this time during this great awakening and in my presence reflecting their higher presence, we can further awaken together. As our consciousness shifts to reflections of unity and come-unity, we are then more able to connect with others to make the sustainable changes we need to make for this planet. If I did not wear the clothes I resonate with because I didn’t want to look too good or too cool for fear of intimidating someone else or having them think I thought of myself as too cool, then I would not be shining my light/my consciousness. I would be hiding my light due to fear. Or hiding my light due to guilt that I have access to these clothes and others don’t. Fear and guilt do not serve my higher self. Ultimately, I do not need the clothes to shine my light. My presence is enough. And at the same time, we have fashion, we have art, we have music. We are creators and I have the ability to express my consciousness through fashion that I resonate with, through dancing to music that I resonate with, etc. Fashion just happens to cost more to make and buy. So the problem comes when I want to express myself in a way that is too expensive for my budget. Again, this just creates more awareness in me on how to develop that expression through my eyes and spirit. Sometimes I need to wear corporate clothes and yet my tribe always recognizes me as I recognize them through my eyes, through my aura. When given the chance, I prefer the opportunity to express myself through clothes I resonate with, from people I know, who put magic and love into the designs. I do not know how to tackle judgment around economic and social classism on a global level. On a personal level, I tackle these isms by not judging people according to economic, social, race or any other divisive strata. Instead I try to be present to each individual’s higher self and recognize that we are all one. My time on this planet is spent with many different types of people but the ones I am closest to are able to understand me when I speak the language I am speaking in this post and who like to express themselves through fashion, dance, art and joy. For some reason, some of those people appear to look like Beautiful People from the Future. On a production level, there is room for improvement. Fashion can be made for more sizes, it can be made cheaper, it can be made in a more sustainable way. It is unfortunate that the arts of any kind require using resources whether its musicians using computers, designers using cotton or leather, or sculptors using massive amounts of wood for a sculpture for one week to burn. So do we stop the process of creating high art, music or fashion because it takes up resources? Do we stop supporting and consuming high fashion or art for the same reason? What role does art (music, fashion, sculpture, painting) have in a sustainable society? Do we only create using recycled materials instead of following our vision to perfection? I look forward to reflections back. That's the long of it.. thanks for reading... |
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Unsu...
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Sun, October 21, 2007 - 10:23 AM
everythig you need to know, you learned in kindergarten
>> Where do you fit in?
back to the beginning of the freaking circle i do belive...stripped, nekkid, so much wiser, yet so much unlearned. just me minus the body armour, tribal colors and crust that grew on me like a skin of honor that defined 'me' in the 80's /90's...as a...freak! it's all a matter of evolution. as we go through life we make ourselves to undo ourselves...we must shed skin. every time groups form, social classes emerge... this is our endless lesson. it can be pointed out in every culture, circle, race, age. (as much as i hate to use generalizations as 'always' , 'same' and 'every')..past a certain number of people gathering it just naturally leads to this. why? human nature maybe? maybe primal nature? maybe our fear of it triggers it and it manifests eminating from us? i dunno..maybe it's all of these. i'm not under your friends list, so do excuse my intrusion of thy blog, but it was circulating round and this subject mighty fascinating to me for years..especially as a parent to a 17 yr old were i try to teach to maintain a healthy balance btw 'fitting in' and 'conserving self worth'. mostly i wanted to say: !!! congratulations !!! on the bold observations and yet the graceful deiivery! it makes me warm and fuzzy to see beings get to the meat and potatoes of life. ps- there are the ones that never will fit any mold, because they mutate at the speed of light, they flow in and out of consciousness of many sub-cultures, they are the chameleons, they are the true freaks, rebels,etc. one can spot em throughout history upon close examination. |
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Unsu...
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Sun, October 21, 2007 - 10:48 AM
mirror mirror on the wall...
hey, wait a second, aren't you a clique starter yourself tho?
tribal harmonix, elf groups, underground meeting circles...come on! ;-) my intention isn't to smear you...but you gotta love the growing pains and contradictions of life. they dissolve us into humility, a platform for further growth. that's 'all' of us sooner or later, and there is something very raw and beautifully human in watching other's shed. here's a quite a friend of mine send me recently on the matter of contradicions... it seems to be the essece of this season and so i share... "How is one to live a moral and compassionate existence when one is fully aware of the blood, the horror inherent in life, when one finds darkness not only in one's culture but within oneself? If there is a stage at which an individual life becomes truly adult, it must be when one grasps the irony in its unfolding and accepts responsibility for a life lived in the midst of such paradox. One must live in the middle of contradiction, because if all contradiction were eliminated at once life would collapse. There are simply no answers to some of the great pressing questions. You continue to live them out, making your life a worthy expression of leaning into the light." peace |
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Unsu...
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Sun, October 21, 2007 - 11:42 AM
geez, pardon me, looks like i got the names and cliques confused and links confused...with other names and cliques...there are soo many..it's mind boggling.
anyway, carry on with life, you are all beautiful in your expressions of living! a feast for the soul it is! thank you for this. |
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Unsu...
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Mon, October 22, 2007 - 3:14 PM
Make your choices for you
I finally read your whole post, and some of the replies. I don't have the hours to slog through it all.
I am glad you broached the topic. I don't agree on some of the points you focus on, specifically how money and power are linked in the scene. I think it's far more complex than that. I think a lot of artists trade work, and perform because it feels good and that's where their energy is. I don't just speak for myself. I think that people have friends where they feel safe, and that's ok. I think you agree. I think when that safety is turned negatively outward in the form of a snub (or bodycheck on the dance floor... it's happened!) that is not ok for me. I think ego and vanity exist, and I think some are more vain than others. I don't feel like I can point as strongly to el circo, and I know your fingers weren't just in that direction. I appreciate that you kept bringing it back to the fact that we can all examine how we choose to participate in groups and how that might make others feel. At the same time, the focus on money and el circo didn't land as strongly with me. When someone snubs me because of their vanity, I try to remind myself that it's not so important that they don't like me, but I don't really like or need that kind of energy in my life. I have friends and community who I love, including people in almost every group mentioned on this thread. I feel lucky and abundant in that. I also have my own narcissistic streak. Call it self love. I just hope that the ways I love me aren't negatively impacting others. I think if one thing can be taken off of this thread, it's that we all make choices, and we can try to be nice to people. I promise to be nice to people and love myself for who I am and how I choose. I know that my choices are influenced by others, it's called being human, and I hope to reflect enough such that in a year, two, ten, I can look back and be glad I made the choices and still feel like they were done for me and who I am. I'm glad you called attention to that kind of reflection. I think the post was a brave one, and I hope the community can turn this hullaballoo into a call for more unity and appreciation for everyone's choices. |
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Wed, October 24, 2007 - 12:40 PM
from an off blog discussion on the same topic
i have been told that this may be valuable to post here:
the blog wasn't really written with an explicit goal in mind. it was written as an observation. the results of a scientific inquiry of sorts. simply to raise awareness of a phenomenon that exists in the world. knowledge is valuable. what people want to do with that awareness is up to them. i don't feel the need to hope that anything will happen more than acceptance of observations. i think only good things can come out of it. i believe that the foundations of this scene (like most people's lives everywhere) are built on finding social acceptance and a sense of belonging. i believe that as people enter the scene, they hope to find people who will embrace them for who they are. however, i believe as we navigate our way through the scene, we make both conscious and unconscious choices to give up who we are, in order be more accepted. this isn't particular to this scene because it happens all the time everywhere. however, i think it is worth noting, because so many people in this scene claim to be so "progressive, spiritual, evolved, conscious", etc but fall into the same traps of being human, and hold on to their "progressive, spiritual, evolved, conscious" identities so strongly, that they are unwilling/unable/afraid of looking at how fragile and human they still are and how much they may still need to grow. i think that if we can be mindful about the fact that we are under the influence of so many forces that tend to move us away from ourselves than we can have more of a conscious relationship with those forces, and thus have a better sense of who we really are. |
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Fri, October 26, 2007 - 12:51 PM
amen brother...
Neat... honesty and self criticism. Those should both on an endangered species list. Or maybe we can at least get them put on the short list of socially acceptable values that most people in the bay area seem to recite when pretending to have a well thought out opinion.
And you're totally a dick for ignoring the sensitivities of the scene to speak what you feel is the truth, I can't get behind that one bit since I disagree with at least a very small percentage of what you said... Now I'm all set to cry a river of tears for the offended, who's fragile egos you so carelessly attacked, the same that most likely lack that self criticism mechanism and will no doubt try to discredit you to lessen the impact of what you say rather than change.... any minute now... here it comes, wait for it... wait for it... n |
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Sat, October 27, 2007 - 9:50 AM
hehe
i for one wanna grovel on the ground after el opulant circ carnival man and do their set up and eat there scraps of attention and mayba just maybe i'll get a thanks. maybe i'll even be cool enough to wear a dacron fuzzy neon pink blinder over my eyes so i can say i'm doing good for the environment while wearing plastic clothes made in third world countries, eating up thousands of gallons of un replenishable fuels screaming "clean up your mess! this a green event!" then we can all go around arresting people for doing what we wanna do because they got to do it before us. orrr thatis before we wanted to do it so everyone could see how cool we are. burners and their off shoots are all the same..
a fad a way of life with a finite time line like hippies and glamrockers. it's ending remember that next it'll be aomething elst. sooo hurry up get on the bandwagon soon before you see paris hilton and her camera crew showing exactly how hip and counter culture the mainstream media has become. so peace off to all the tossers and i hope you'll all be able to reshape, redirect, and cultivate the next generation of the true underground. so long and thanx for all the dust love Mr. Mouse |
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Tue, November 13, 2007 - 6:47 PM
so interesting...
i've noticed this trend for quite a while, even threw a few jokes its way - but for a long, long time i seemed to be on my own with that... imagine my surprise when i return to the west coast this year to find out that even my own friends, some of whom could be accused of hanging on to a bit of "leather'n'feather" style, feel a bit disgruntled by the fact that they can't even identify their own friends at festivals anymore since everyone looks the same.
and for me, i've been living in asheville, nc for a bit - where "the look" is pretty much just starting to trickle in... i'm a big trend-spotter, always have been, and my usual knee-jerk response is to acquire a tiny bit of it, be inspired by a tiny bit of it, and then, eventually, start really, really wanting to see something new... what can i say i worked in advertising for a long time, which is basically a paid and societally-sanctioned industry based on classifying folks... and having read "the official bassnectar response" here - i gotta say, it's true, bassnectar is friends (or does cool things for) even those of us who aren't "ubercool" - he once gave me, totally unknown, a ticket to shambala when i was spending a year in oregon. i was pretty psyched, because i love his music and i love dancing to it and i was in the middle of a festival-every-weekend kind of summer (for me it wasn't a trust fund, tho - i was collecting new york city unemployment while living in portland, oregon). fast forward a bit to shambala - i'm having an alright time, have found some nice canadians to help me take care of a border-induced deficiency, and then it's time for lorin to play - i make my way to the front but find myself kinda turned off by the peacocks preening on stage behind him, so i head to the back, people are throwing down, and that's where i stay. the music still sounds great! i guess much of it is that i'm too old to care so much. i've been out and around for 20 years, been through a buncha phases, at my age, i KNOW there ARE some people out there who think i'm cool, i know i'm liked, and even loved, by some, and if someone doesn't want to talk to me because i done got over that fashion trend in 2000, well, whatever... i'm glad you stepped up with this, and it's been interesting to read the responses... i guess if i had to pick a side tho i'd throw in my two cents that the leather and feather thing has gone overboard - i expect hot topic to reflect this any day now, i do. and i'm looking forward to seeing the response. |
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Sun, November 18, 2007 - 1:15 PM
My Truth
I spent thousand dollas on tribal bling this year got me just three little garments that I hold dear Shouldn’t have spent all of that money could of saved a starving kid but I spent all of that money in just three days I did! Then I spent all my time primping and I missed the protest I wonder what I can do or be to help the world suffer less? Out on the dancefoor just trying to work it out, looking at the sexy people I forget what its about. I'll make my escape and alter my mind so much, that the sad truths of this world we live in, my mind wont even touch. Don’t want to say hi cause I didn’t say hi first? This community is blessing and its judgments are its curse! Im feeling uncomfortable unsure, cracked out and uninspired could be of this unsustainable decadent lifestyle my soul is tired? My new expensive cloths are already falling apart oh dam.... I'm goanna party so hard that I forget about Iran. Wait….souldn't I be Co-creating some sort communal reality? Wasn’t the whole idea to be the change we wished to see? And yet…. My friends are like rare jewels ...wearing feathers cause we miss our wings...wearing magic talismans mistook by some fools for bling bling. My friends are wize, wild and all- knowing of their powers, but not sure how to use them in this the final hour. We are Seed scatters Dimensional travelers Truth unravelers Powers that be Visionaries for creation of a true Comeunity!!!!!!!!! The Catalysts that create the space for a gathering place, now that’s a service of divine and much needed grace! Ritual wavers Sacred keepers Mythic dreamers Love beamers!!!! Now, here’s a little reminder I’ll say so true: It was never just about the Music for me and you, But it really was Each Other that brought each one of us here, to manifest visions, truths and dreams, to share our talents dear. To be supported, sustainable, nurtured and accepted…. And for no being on this planet to ever be neglected. We have all we need While the earth it does bleed We must first sow the seeds…. |
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Wed, December 5, 2007 - 12:08 AM
awed
I was just introduced to this blog today by my magnificent roommate Paradox, who I have since spent the afternoon discussing the importance of addressing this issue. It is an important issue, being that we have created a community from a place of people with the desire to have free expression apart from a world so many of us felt decline to subscribe to. Now after several years of creating this community we are facing these kinds of questions like are we no different than what we have tried to escape from? First off, I thought this is not what I do or have done, but the truth is that we are all responsable for the reality we create and should I have had any participation in co-creating a classism in our community, I feel ashamed, and being that there is in my opinion some truth to this blog, I take responsability for this and now move beyond the shame to a place of question again to how do we address this issue and move in a new direction with it as a community? It is apparant that no one wants to be identified with this, and I had to ask myself here "have we failed?" but my answer is no. I do see differences in our community that sets us apart from this standard class system analogy. One being that this is a community stemmed ultimately by rebels, artists, and people who wanted to manifest their dreams into reality. I have found this community to be a very open place for anyone and everyone to come forth with their dreams and creativity and be supported in creating and cocreating them to manifestation. We have developed a culture, a subculture that gives us the opportunity to freely express ourselves and with self motivation be recognized for that. With this, we have drawn others near who have as well been inspired, maybe some people who are still searching for their own calling as artists and performers, and as an artist myself who is always striving for expression from my own inner authenticity, I am as well inspired by those around me. I think it's awesome when someone asks me where I got my coat or necklace or whatever that I can say my friend made it, I don't wear anything to be accepted by anyone, but I also won't deny wearing something in fear of being judged that I am a certain way or a part of a certain group or clique. This is a new culture that we have developed though, regardless, we are in many ways both young and ancient souls, and with the evolvement of this culture/community we are a part of, this conversation is very important to the future of what we become and the survival of our existance!
My questions now to everyone who feels a self vested interest in this is what do we want? how do we want to be seen? and what can we do to live from that answer? My biggest question to the person who wrote this blog is what would you like to see from this community and what can you do to be a part of a new chapter that we can create together? Or what would have you found refreshing to witness in opposition to what you percieved from your observations and discussions concerning this issue? I ask because on an overall basis, everyone, including yourself, is very dissatisfied with the reality that there may be truth here. What can be done to change this now? I am inspired and curious to know! This is a crucial time to address this- we are facing all kinds of new challenges, and I would love to see us be able to embrace these challenges with a grace and dignity as a community that is awake, compassionate, artistic and loving fully accepting of anyone who may cross our paths either as individuals or as a group. |
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Tue, December 11, 2007 - 1:54 PM
after more processing
I know I'm late in the game to read this and respond, but still after more processing of this blog and these perceptions I have come to some more thoughts I feel inclined to share here. i think it is important to know that although there may be similarities among our community to this classism theory, there are also vast differences as well. Firstly, what is being considered the "top of the food chain" here are not rich people gloating in luxeries and making everyone else do the work. All these people have created a reality that others have been inspired by and enrolled in by their own self choosing. El Circo does not make other people work for them, they all work for themselves, they are the ones putting the sweat and tears behind their creations and others come to participate by choice. I do see a kind of classism though that comes from a state of mind more than anything else. this year at Bman I had a very powerful awakening where I saw everyone for who they really were, and it became very clear to me at that point who the light beings/workers were and who was basically in the game to gain popularity and for self involved motives. I saw a lot of people lost, but feeling drawn to this community maybe not event fully understanding why, but it has to do with an energy. I feel that in this community we choose where we place ourselves on a psychic level, it is more about who is really standing in their power and shining, showing their true selves, and that's where people become recognized. I personally would love to see us all use our empowerment to better the planet beyond shows and events, to give back and be in service to those that are truly in need...I fell this helps keep a balance and understanding of humanity in whole. I have struggled myself with seeing how this commintu has grown at times, and how a high school mentality seems to linger in judgement of certain people that think you have to dress a certain way or hang out with cetain people to be cool...it actually makes me really naucious, but I also have to say my observations of this have come from the younger generations coming in, which makes me think to myself what kind of example are we setting as elders and role models now? I don't think this is something any of us have even thought to think of- being a group of artists, rebels, I don't think we ever felt aresponsability to be teachers or role models to others that look up to us in any way...and i only say "us" including myself because I have been a part of this community for 15 years now and I have watched it go through many changes and growth in numbers. From being an events producer, DJ, and a founding member of the Mystik Family Circus, I have experienced a lot, but always considered myself more of an artist than a role model and elder. this is a question that comes up for me now as I present it here also. I think to place the capitalist theory on this community is very interesting, I'm not sure I agree wth it, being that most of the people in the community are artists and it seems the harder one works to contribute something of enlightening substance in this reality, the more recognized they become. Maybe I see it from a more pure place, but I think we are utmostly human even if we don't want to always admit this, and therefore personalities and attitudes affect each other. I think there are people playing the "cool" game for sure, but I have to say that in all my life through all my travels and work and experiences, my heart and soul are drawn back here where I have found some real jewels of humans here with deep knowledge and ritual and understanding of great spirit...a kindredness I can't deny, a knowing of the other...and for me that discludes any of this classism theory. I could care less whether it's Falsed Profit or ElCirco, when spirit talks, people in this community respond to that. Like I said before, I see a lot of people that are still trying to find themselves, not sure the deeper meaning of why they are drawn to this world, dressing a part that emulates people they look up to, but I think it's really important at this time that we all may begin to understand that we are making an imprint here and on each other and it is our responsability to emcompass this, as we are truly a young community at whole and we are creating legacies for others to follow.
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Sat, May 24, 2008 - 11:58 AM
great thread....
I find the sociology of the West Coast tribal breaks scene to be both fascinating and also very tiring... I'm not into dressing up and looking hot. I'm more interested in really good sound and music. And dancing. For hours on end. As a result, I feel a very weird vibe coming from the Burning Man/ tribal glam / breaks scene sometimes. I started off with the Grateful Dead and then got into Goa trance, and there is a social hierarchy in those scenes too but there's something that's less stuffy and more fun about it.... it's more about the music and losing the ego... and i see the scene described in the article as more about fashion... and pumping up the ego... which causes everything to get mucked up. |
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Thu, August 19, 2010 - 11:10 AM
The scene...
I think the classist element has always been there but in the beginning it was all so new that no one had yet found a way to start the inevitable social stratification that is simply the glasses through which some people, usually of the more privileged classes, view the world. It's part of the socialization, it's all around them from birth on. The scene has been around long enough now where it is being mainstreamed... 14 year olds want tats and piercings for birthday presents... so now those whose cleverness doesn't flower until they have a quorum of their own class around them are myriad... and as in the corporate world from where many of them are offspring, the inculcated instinct is to take over.
One important thing you left out that I feel is central is that in the beginning, alcohol was not allowed. Besides the music which was the glorious draw for me, psychedelics, MJ, healthy juices and energy drinks were the fare... alcohol pharmacologically shuts down the parts of the brain given to civility and generosity, acceptance and expansive thought and gives raise to base, animal drives like belligerence, territoriality, jealousy and other lizard brain level functions. When those first "legitimate" raves began to happen in bars sponsored by beer companies, I knew the scene as it had been was dead. |

